.577 Snider Blank Misfit


#1

I’m thinking this .577 Snider got sent to the Island of Misfit Toys (rejected and used as a blank case) as it seems to have its longer inside cup over the shorter outside cup.

Didn’t find any reference to this base format being used. Any thoughts are welcome on this.

Thanks,
Dave


#2

This will sound like a stupid question, but since there is nothing for size comparison in the photo, and no measurements, I will ask it. Did you check th rim diameter against a Snider round? I had an early .303 blank in my collection that looked much like this, but of course, the rim diameter was much smaller than the Snider’s. In the picture, I can’t tell size - only proportion.

John Moss


#3

John,

Here’s a .303 for scale…

Note how the inner and outer cups are at the heights you can see on the blank. I assume the order of assembly got out of order in the blank’s case?

Added: Had to go look up that .303 blank, John. Sure enough, Hoyem Vol.2 p.118. Rolled brass case, single base cup, iron base disk. That west coast air ain’t hurting your memory none…Did you depart with the whole .303 collection?

Dave


#4

Here’s a regular Blank Mk IV Converted for comparison, I’ve got no idea what’s happened to your cartridge Dave.

Jim


#5

Nothing has happened to that case, both the Blank Mark II and III were made with a single base cup.

Your blank looks like a Mark II, as this was plain brass and the Mark III was paper covered. However, it is possible your blank is a converted ball round from one of the non-British marks of Snider, perhaps Canadian or Australian, as these often used diferent methods of construction.

Regards
TonyE


#6

All of the Canadian made .577" I have examined has a double base cup. I have examined a blank with a paper case with single cup and was told it was Eley made.


#7

The two I show to the left of the blank above I think are 1st and 2nd Pattern Canadian. All three were obtained together from a Canadian gentleman. (The 1st Pattern may have its projectile bumped in a little deep?) While I tried to get the photo to show it better, the blank appears to have the shorter, normally outside cup under the longer, normally inside cup. Not sure how these were assembled (by hand or by machine) but reversing the order of cup assmbly might result in the item at hand?

Dave


#8

Dave,

I let a friend who was here from RSA cherry pick my .303 collection, then kept about 100 decnet ones for trade - mostly gone now after many years - and gave the rest as a donation to the IAA Auction. Since I didn’t go to the auction the next year and wasn’t at the show the following year, I never really found out how well IAA did on it. Well, I hope. There was penty of good stuff left. I had about 1500 .303s (no “dates” - that is, I did not collect different dates) when I broke it up.

I actually had two slightly different of those short blanks. Proportionately, they look the same as the Snider one, pretty much, or at least to my memory. In your photo including a .303, the size difference is startling, of course. Thanks for the clarification.

John Moss


#9

Went digging some more on varieties of base configurations of the Snider and also the “Martini-Henry/Snider” blanks with short bodies suited to both calibers. I’m starting to think TonyE might be right that this is how it was made by intent. While other single cup varieties don’t show a bulge, the Mark IV single cup base “Martini-Henry/Snider” blank shown in Hoyem Vol.2 has a very similar look with a bulge about the height of a short cup. This example is shown with a paper wraped outer body and the plain rolled brass version has two typical base cups, but obviously, many variations exist. Don’t know what the bulge is about and might just be how they end up getting formed or there could be a cup in there…

Thanks all for the input on this one.

Dave


#10

The 577 black powder express was made this way and this could be a blank made from that case type.

Most of the later patterns of blank for the 577 were made this way on commercial contract after the military production was stopped.

John Belton has been working on a book about the Boxer cartridges for many years and has hundreds of variation.

Blanks were made from all sorts of cases including defective , broken down out of date , rejected lots whatever came to hand.


#11

Heres a couple more Snider blanks
The one on the left is the elusive New Zealand CAC Potet base blank, the other Im not sure about,
it is made from brown card/paper


#12

COULD YOU PUT PICTURES OF HSTPS PLEASE
THANKS
JP


#13

Here are a couple more blanks;

The first is a Mk IV Blank Converted made from the Mk IX Ball case (thanks TonyE)

This is a Mk IV Blank made by Eley

JP - both these rounds have a black iron head without a headstamp.

Jim


#14

[quote=“Jim”]
JP - both these rounds have a black iron head without a headstamp.
Jim[/quote]

Oups !
I am sorry, Jim, in fact i was asking the question to Craigt.
Indeed on his pictures the left ctge doesn’t seem to have a snider base
(round brass rim instead of regular steel rim)
JP


#15

JP, no headstamps on my rounds, the Snider blank on the left was made in New Zealand by CAC
in the 1880s and it would appear that there arent many in existance, a very unusually constructed
cartridge. I dont think the first CAC Snider ball cartridges were made this way???


#16

[quote=“craigt”]JP, no headstamps on my rounds, the Snider blank on the left was made in New Zealand by CAC
in the 1880s and it would appear that there arent many in existance, a very unusually constructed
cartridge. I dont think the first CAC Snider ball cartridges were made this way???[/quote]

Craigt,
Could you put a picture of the base please.
You said indeed it was a Potet base.
JP


#17

Hi,

Here are some more.

I have these .577 Snider cartridges as Mark IV blank, Mark III blank (white paper wad), buckshot cartridge from Dum-Dum Arsenal India, and military ball Mark IX.

All have black iron heads and no headstamp.

Heavyiron


#18

Shown is a photo of the base along side a drawing of the construction.
The drawing is in “Whitney’s Heritage. A Study of Cartridges Manufactured by The Colonial Ammunition
Company in New Zealand” by Barry W. Gracia, a member of the NZCCC
At this stage only one packet of the Mark A blanks is known but 2 variations in case length exist.
Ball rounds of the same construction are known to exist.
If anyone would like more information on the cartridge or the Whitney Sniders let me know
and I will contact Barry and see if I can post a couple of pages. The publication is a superb
piece of reference in this particular niche area