.577 Turkish Snider Cartridges


#1

Hi and Happy New Year to all of you!
There is a couple of turkish Snider cartridges that i possess.
The first one that made me to collect black powder cartridges is this:
and its base is:
The next is this:
and and
And the last cartridge, that I’d cleaned before New Year was this:

This cartridge has turned out to be a marked one:


I’ll be very grateful if you will show some of your Snider cartridges and all we know that there are a great variety of forms and manufacturers concerning this matter. I’m wandering who except the Otoman Empire has manufactured this type of ammunition.
Wish you all the best!


#2

Turkey ( Ottoman Empire) bought their Sniders from Belgium, who used a variety of " Enfield" Type muskets for the Snider Patent Conversion
( Both real P53/58 British Enfield, and Belgian contract-made Enfields; the Snider contract for Turkey was relatively short lived, as the Turks went to Providence Tool Company for supplies of the Peabody Martini ( a copy of the British Mark I Martini-Henry, in .45 Turkish calibre - smaller case than .450MH).
Belgian Ammuniton makers supplied Turkey with .577 Snider ammo as well, at least until WW I; The Turkish ammo plant set up with German Assistance in 1908, probably made .577 ammo during WW I, as Sniders were still in use in some far flung outposts of the Ottoman Empire ( Yemen, etc.). It is known that the Turks , prior to 1908, loaded ammo from Components acquired in Europe, and also reloaded some of their ammo.
Whether the cases photographed are belgian made or Turkish loaded/made, I cannot say. Only that the crescent Moon is the Turkish Gov’t property mark.
Most ammo New-made at the 1908 factory was headstamped, in Turkish script and calendar dates ( 9,5mm, 7,65mm are Known headstamped cases.

maybe some one else has some more detailed information.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

Thank you, DocAV.
As far as I know the Turks had two types of Sniders - Sider-Enfields and Snider-Sprigfields. The major diference between these two is in sights - like that on the parent weapons. They are almost of same caliber - .58 and .577.
The first round has s slightly bigger caliber (14.75mm) than the last two (13.45mm) - not very important since the bullet type is Minie (expands to grip rifling). My opinion is that the first cartridge is the newest one and is intended for old weapons with worn out bores and rifling (except the bigger diameter of the bullet the primer is very similar to those used on my 7.65x54 mm Turish Mauser “O” cartridge that is made in 1895).
Am I right?
I’ll be grateful for your thougts about that matter.


#4

These particular rounds are extracted from Vit river (Bulgaria). When Osman Pasha was about to be captured by Russians near Pleven he ordered all supplies and ammunition to be dumped in the river for not to be captured by Russians. So these cartridges was under water for about 130 years.


#5

I am curious, can you show a picture of what these rounds looked like before cleaning?


#6

Of course I can. These pics showing some not cleaned rounds.





These are not or partialy cleaned rounds.


#7

You have done very nice work. I really like that Crescent-marked round.


#8

And besides this that marked round is very rare. I’m very happy to possess it. It comes to me by chance. In a pile of very rusty cartridges i’d grab one and start to clean it. My amazement was so great when I found this crescent moon!


#9

That is the joy of cartridge collecting. You are lucky. Keep up the good work. Where there was one, there should be more.


#10

Where are these corroded cartridges being found??


#11

Guy…Iv4o mentions in this thread that he is finding these in the Vit River in Bulgaria and the reason they ended up there…

Randy


#12

Ooops! How did I miss that??? I must have been too busy with the pictures.


#13

[quote=“30army”]Guy…Iv4o mentions in this thread that he is finding these in the Vit River in Bulgaria and the reason they ended up there…

Randy[/quote]
Actually I didn’t retreive the cartridges from the river by myself. I just buy them at a very favorable price from a man, who possibly do this.