5mm Remington Mag


#1

I just received this as a gift and thought that the forum might be interested in viewing it. Don’t know how many of these have survived. This one, however, is not in the greatest condition. I received it from the son of a man who managed a sporting goods store in the little hamlet of Basalt, Colorado, in the late 60’s and early 70’s.


#2

Nice item! What is the rim diameter of that case?


#3

Was it just marketing that made the difference between this cartridge failing and the .17HMR being an instant success?


#4

If I had to guess, I’d guess that it was another in the long history of Remingtom marketing blunders. The U.S. has never been enamored with the metric system, and in the 50s and 60s especially, it could sound a death knell on otherwise good products.

JMHO

Ray


#5

Falcon, that is actually a very good question because from where I stand there is little to seperate the two.
I will get in first with my theory. It was take up by the other gun manufacturers that did it. The “hummer” came out and was immediately seized upon by just about every other rifle manufacturer who saw a way of introducing the calibre into their existing range of .22s with very little redesign.

This didn’t happen to anywhere near the same extent with the 5mm or to the .22 Win Mag although the .22 Mag still sells it is a bit of a lame duck.

It could be because the 5mm Rem and the .22 Win Mag carry the names of direct competitors ie Rem amd Win although that hasn’t deterred the rifle manufacturers when it comes to centrefire calibres.

so my theory is that the 5mm was too strongly branded as Remington and therefore ignored where as the hummer is fairly untainted by branding and the other manufacturers felt comfortable with promoting it as a concept calibre.


#6

Vince

The 33 year gap between the 5mm and the 17 HMR didn’t hurt. In the 21st Century, just about any new cartridge can find an instant following.

Ray


#7

I thought, & may well be wrong but it failed because some of the ammunition was factory over-loaded & blowing up guns. So ammo was pulled off the shelves & none of the gun owners could shoot until recently when the Aguila came available .


#8

FEDE, the dimentions are identical to the factory ammo. It is a factory dummy round with a tie tack clip soldered onto it. Quite an odd Remington memorbilia.


#9

I asked you that because prototype rounds had a smaller rim diameter.


#10

FEDE, I didnt know that. Tomarrow I will measure the rim diameter of both this item and a few live rounds and will post my findings.


#11

A Remington 591, in 5mm Rem Mag, may have been the 1st rifle I ever bought and I kept it until Remington announced they were discontinuing ammo for it. Another error I made, not keeping a box or a single round but at 19, doubt I knew what a cartridge collector was.

This was a very hot little bullet, available only in hollow point and it literally destroyed whatever it hit, not a game gun. The .22 Win Mag was available in solids and there was greater variance in centerfire .22’s. The ammo was quite a bit higher cost than other rimfires, though I don’t recall the price now. Sales were very slow for guns and ammo I believe. In my town, our Western Auto was the #1 shooters store and they brought in 1ea of the 591 and 592, along with a case of ammo. After I bought the 591 the 592 remained for several years and I was the only person buying the ammo. They never replaced the rifle or ammo inventory.

I think Ray is correct, American’s were not familiar with metrics nor do I think there was the niche for the cartridge that Remington believed. It was strictly a varmit round as offerred and there were well established, better cartridges already in place. It may have been great for shooting ground hogs on the prairie but it was not an Eastern squirrel round and its lack of versatility killed it, IMO. The cost of the ammo did not help either, at least to me.

That’s really a nice gift Remchester. Bet the market is not awash with those either!


#12

FEDE, I checked the rim diameter of the advertising item I posted against a white box of early Remington 5mm Magnums I have in my collection. Your insticts were correct. The rim diameter of the advertising piece is .305" while the early box of ammunition is .322" diameter. I had never heard there was actually two different diameters. Would you care to educate us on the history of this oddity?


#13

The rounds from early 1968 had a .303-.307’’ diameter rim opposed to the larger .318-.325’’ rim of the final version presented in 1970. The early bullet is also different because the lines on it doesn’t run all the way to the crimping groove (this is the bullet illustrated in their catalogs).


#14

I had a 592, which I bought new, along with 5 boxes of ammo, and never fired it even once. I sold it and the ammunition about 3 years ago. I don’t know why it never caught on. I had read allegations that the extractor was very fragile and it broke easily, also that large chamber pressure excursions also happened resulting in blowouts. Both faults seem unlikely, as those problems (if they even existed) should have been eliminated during development. I think the greatest problem may have been the cost of ammunition vs. that of other rimfires. I don’t remember the price back about 1978, other than it was a lot more than .22 LR.

I first saw the new Aguila Centurion 5mm ammunition at the 2008 SHOT Show, before it was marketed, and still have some of the promotional material they were handing out there. The folks in the booth were very reticent in providing any substantive information. I have seen a few boxes for sale at gun shows, but none recently, so I have to assume that the Centurion 5mm project was not viable and it’s no longer being loaded. There are probably too few rifles around to create much of a demand. The Centurion ammo was close to $20/box, and that probably didn’t help either. I seem to remember I was told by the Centurion people that some firearms manufacturers were supposedly introducing new guns chambered in 5mm, but I don’t believe that ever happened.


#15

The Aguila/Centurion ammunition was produced for the Taurus Model 590 Tracker revolver introduced in 2008. It was discontinued and is not included in their 2011 catalog.


#16

There have been several references to the price of the 5mm Rimfire. Here are the prices from various Remington catalogs:

1970-- (Year of Introduction) .22 L.R. was $1.00–5mm was $3.49

1981–(Last year Remington listed it) .22 L.R. was $2.15–5mm was $13.52

These are the Remington Suggested Retail Prices. So, while the price of the .22 L.R. only approximately doubled in price between 1970 and 1981, the 5mm almost quadrupled in price. It is no wonder nobody wanted to shoot it.


#17

I bought a Remington 592M in about 1970 and could only find two boxes of cartridges for about the first 3 or 4 months. In those days, I preferred open sights, and the 5mm rifle was fitted with the standard .22 LR rim fire sights. Because of the different cartridge, sighting the rifle in proved to be impossible. Once I mounted a scope and tested it on a variety of critters, I found it (the 5mm) lacking in power & penetration compared to the standard .22 Magnum. I sold the rifle and never looked back. JH


#18

My memory from our store was that it was really the gun that killed the cartridge. Remington made a hot little round and tried to adapt it to a pretty much standard .22 rifle. The rifle had problems with blown out (not just broken) extractors, and rather than offer a refund on all the guns to protect against injury lawsuits, they chose to simply discontinue the cartridge, knowing they were the only source of ammunition for these rifles.

This was a cartridge that should have had a gun designed specifically for it, based on center-fire rifle designs. Of course, then perhaps it would have been too expensive to sell.

Collectors can mourn it, but it certainly was no loss to the shooting community to see it disappear.


#19

Ah so that is the way it was. Thank you John.


#20

[quote=“JohnMoss”]My memory from our store was that it was really the gun that killed the cartridge. Remington made a hot little round and tried to adapt it to a pretty much standard .22 rifle. The rifle had problems with blown out (not just broken) extractors, and rather than offer a refund on all the guns to protect against injury lawsuits, they chose to simply discontinue the cartridge, knowing they were the only source of ammunition for these rifles.

This was a cartridge that should have had a gun designed specifically for it, based on center-fire rifle designs. Of course, then perhaps it would have been too expensive to sell.

Collectors can mourn it, but it certainly was no loss to the shooting community to see it disappear.[/quote]
Hi John. Remington sent me a letter back then directing me to send my 592 to them for a retrofit, which I did. I had sent only the metal parts minus the stock. When it came back to me, it had a new stock assembled as well !! Remington did offer to repair the rifles in this caliber. M. Rea