6.5mm? Identification Required

This is too big to be a .450 C.F. Revolver and too small to be a 30-06 !!

Case length: 1.945” (49.4mm)
Rim Ø: 0.454” (11.53mm)
Shoulder Ø: 0.415" (10.54mm)
Head Ø: 0.449” (11.4mm)
Neck Ø: 0.294” (7.49mm)
Bullet Ø: 0.262” (6.655mm)
O/A: 2.853" (72.47mm)

CNCS bullet jacket, red primer annulus.

My first thought was 6,5mm Mannlicher, but the case length should be 54mm

I have no idea if this applies to the above round, but here is a discussion concerning FN made 6.5x51mm for Sweden: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2953

Brian

I actually just got one of these earlier this week!
Apparently there were some custom ammo companies in the 1950s or '60s that used surplus Belgian MS cartridges to modify into 6.5mm Arisaka ammunition.

Jon,
I thought the 6.5 Arisaka was rimmed ?!?

Thanks Brian,
The case on this specimen appears to be too narrow to have been derived from the 7.62 NATO necked to 6.5.

[quote=“ChrisP”]Jon,
I thought the 6.5 Arisaka was rimmed ?!?[/quote]

The Japanese is a semi-rimmed round, but I believe it headspaces on the shoulder and the extractor should be able to get a good bite.

I know someone who made 6.5 m/m Arisaka brass from .35 Remington, also a rimless cartridge, and he told me it extracted OK, tho ejection was weak. I can certainly see someone who wanted to shoot a Japanese 6.5 before Norma brass became available giving consideration to using Schoenauer brass. Jack

I have some 7mm Mauser with this headstamp? Maybe necked down to 6.5 ? Carcano?

A box not labeled for Carcano but for Mannlicher, same headstamp Chris shows even to annulus color, however case length is 53.49mm. Clip is unmarked.
The M-1903 M.S. rifle has a slot to take this kind of clip.

The 6,5 MS Cartridges marked “FN 50” were made on order of the Royal Hellenic Army during the reconstruction phase of Greece’s Political and military Structures after the ruinous Civil War (1944-48) between The Communist Partizan Groups and the Royal Hellenic Army and Monarchist Partizan Groups; The Greek Communist Party had hoped Stalin’s Red Army would assist them in taking over Greece; but the Yalta accords between Britain, USA and the USSR, placed Greece squarely in the “British Zone of Influence”, so Stalin “stood Pat” and allowed the Greek communists to be defeated.
BY the 1950s, Greece had received thousands of British Rifles, MGs etc and Millions of rounds of WW II .303 ammo; the PCH factory at Piraeus was in a sorry state after the depredations of both the Germans and the Civil war, so ammunition for the older MS rifles was needed to be “bought in” to cover the change over to .303 and Later, .30 cal US.

The Contract was fairly Large, as much of the 6,5 ammo was later surplussed off (through Interarms) in the 60s and 70s ( despite GCA68) as were the entire MS rifle and carbine inventory after 1986.

The 6,5 ammo was snapped up by Hunters with both Sporting MS rifles and by Military Collectors, as it was the only source of shootable 6,5 MS ammo then available (Norma and RWS were much too expensive.) It had mostly disappeared by the Late 90s, with only the occasional Packet showing up as “collector’s Ammo” at Gunshows. BTW, the stripper clips for 6,5MS ammo are Unique in size.

Some US “ammo tinkerers” converted these rounds to be used in 6,5 Arisaka, by resizing the primed case, trimming it, then reloading the powder and bullet. As mentioned above, the converted case was made to HS on the shoulder; —the Arisaka Cartridge does actually Headspace on the semi-rim; Have done this in a Take-off barrel when “popping” the Primers to make deacts for Japanese buyers ( I used a rounded Nail-set Punch the diameter of the Primer (.200") in a sleeve over the barrel threads, with Face mask and leather apron and gloves–barrel held vertically in a vice (Muzzle down).

Doc AV

I think Jon is right. The 6.5 Jap has a very significant groove. I’d expect it would eject just fine in a bolt action rifle. It wouldn’t be the first time our “custom ammo companies” took some latitude with their creations.

No, I’m not collecting Japanese ammo, the two below are Chinese.

Cheers,
Lew

A Chinese purple paper blank??? Lew, any h/s on that round?

Two variations, one with no headstamp and the other with case by Shanghai Arsenal (Shanghai symbol) 3 = This last symbol is a Chinese 3. A clip of them showed up in England many years ago.

Cheers,
Lew

Let me clarify…is there a h/s on the purple paper blank? I don’t recall ever seeing that on Chinese blanks, they usually have wood bullets, but the Japanese did use those particular purple paper projectiles periodically.

Jon,

Sorry I wasn’t clear. There are two different Chinese paper bullet blanks that look identical except for the headstamp. One blank has an unheadstamped case and one has the Shanghai headstamp on the case. A clip (typical Chinese brass clip) with five rounds turned up in the UK 25 or 30 years ago. Three had headstamps and two had no headstamp. The one I photographed has a headstamp.

Cheers,
Lew

OK, understood. Very interesting, news to me. More to look for!