6.5×52mm Mannlicher-Carcano 1927 S.M.I. box


#1

This box came to me open but with all the original goodies inside. I don’t see these 1920’s “inter-war” boxes a lot, maybe because I mostly go to gun shows as opposed to cartridge shows. Are these becoming uncommon? Also, John Moss likes to comment on Italian stuff, where is he?
image


#2

NICE! Are they on stripper clips?

Steve


#3

Yes, but they might be chargers :)


#4

Sorry for my bit of slang. Im trying to use the correct terminology before Ray gets a holed of me!

Steve


#5

Steve, a charger is used to assist in loading a rifle quickly. It is inserted into a guide and the cartridges are pushed down into the magazine all at once (ideally!). The stripper/charger is then removed from the guide. The 6.5x52s in the photo are in a clip, which is inserted into the magazine as a complete unit. When the cartridges have been expended, the clip falls out through an opening in the bottom of the magazine. This is a Mannlicher design. The M95 Steyr is loaded the same way. The M1 Garand is also loaded with a clip, but the clip is ejected out the top when the cartridges are expended. My terminology is quite vague, at best. If someone can enlighten me with the proper terms, I would be grateful! Cheers!


#6

The Carcano and the M1 Rifle both use clips of the “en bloc” type, in which the cartridges and their clip are inserted into the firearm as a unit. The terms “charger” and “strip clip” or “stripper clip” refer to a clip that carries the cartridge to the firearm; once the clip is locked into a clip guide the cartridges are stripped from it into the arm’s magazine and the clip is discarded. The typical charger (British term generally) or stripper is the Mauser type, which has many variant forms used in many rifles, pistols, and even a few machine guns. Jack


#7

Steve

I thought a charger was a football player in San Diego and a stripper was - well, you know. The only reason I read the thread was because it was started by Vlad (I read all of his), and you responded (I read all of yours too).

Ray ;) ;)


#8

I knew I would get caught!

Steve


#9

These boxes are not rare in Italy.


#10

The Correct Italian term for the Mannlicher Patent Cartridge Clip is “Caricatore” or (Eng) “Loader”.( or “Charger”)…Both the English and the italian derive from the Med. Latin “Caricat” ( the Cavalry order: “Charge!”).

The term “Caricatore” also refers to removable Box magazines as well.

The Solid Magazine well is called the “Serbatoio” ( Reservoir)

SO the Caricatore goes into the Serbatoio in an M91

Another term for the metal Object itself is “Piastrina” ( small sheet or plate) a term which also refers to a soldier’s “dog tags”.
Piastrina is more often used w.r.t Mauser-style stripper clips, and is directly translated into German as “Ladestriefen” ( Loading strip).

Now that I have confused everybody, The best English description of the M-C M91 Clip is a " En-Bloc Packet clip or Charger", or more simply, a “Mannlcher-Carcano clip” ( The Italians did pay a Licence fee for the use of the design.).

As to the 1927 Box, it is from the Bardalone Factory of SMI (Not the later Campo Tizzoro) and the print layoput is typical of Boxes from about 1905 onwards for Military 6,5mm cartridges.

The Notation “Solenite” describing the Powder, is a bit superfluous by 1920s, as Ballistite had been discontinued for Ball ammo by 1905; but old ways die hard…No other powder was used in Italian-made 6,5 cartridges in its whole History from 1905 or so, except for the Hirtenberger 1936 Contract, which used a Germanic Flake type Powder and the Winchester Post-WW II Lot 6001, etc, which used an IMR Powder.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#11

Capua and Bologna ammo plants used balistite powder for Ball loadings until 1897 - 1898. The new Solenite loadings were marked with an “X” in the headstamp until 1909 ( Bologna) and 1911 ( Capua). Cartridges made in those years exist with and without the symbol. Never seen a carcano cartridge made between 1898 and 1909 without the “X” in the headstamp, so these cartridges were all loaded with Solenite

SMI started making Carcano ammo in 1911, so they actually never used Balistite for their Ball loadings.

Balistite has been always used for Carcano variations, such as Short-range, blanks and frangible loads


#12

Was the Solenite found in 6.5 m/m ammunition always the very large perforated amber-colored grains I’m familiar with? Likewise the 7.35 m/m? Jack


#13

Yes, Solenite was always the “macaroni” style grains (cut tubes). Only the colour varied, from a dark Brown to an almost Golden colour, depending on the Lot, age, and other imponderables.
Like the German “Gewehr Blattchen Pulver”, and British Cordite its composition remained relatively unchanged in over 50-60 years production.
And also as stable as British Cordite.
Solenite was developed by Italy to avoid paying Alfred Nobel exhorbitant Licence fees for making “Balistite” in Italy at the Avigliana Factory in North- western Italy. It was also cooler burning that Balistite, which eroded barrels quite quickly ( Hence the “Tubata” Repairs in the pre-WW I M91 rifles).

Regards,
Doc AV


#14

Doc: Thanks for the additional information on Solenite. Pivi’s comments on the X=Solenite on the early headstamps was also new to me. Jack