6.5x53R Dutch Mannlicher. (Edit: with; 'B' on the headstamp......proposed as Carl Berg but; no evidence)

I have the following inerted 6.5 x53R Dutch Mannlicher with the; ‘B,’ in the headstamp. I believe the; ‘B,’ indicates the brass supplier: Carl Berg; Werdohl, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany.

From Joost: July 2007, regarding: “known brass suppliers.”

“S = Schweizerische Metallwerke Selve & Co
FN = Fabrique nationale
Gr = G. Roth (logo)
B = Carl berg hagen Werdohl Germany
BS = Basse & Selve Messingwerke Altona Germany
X = Gorham manufacturing company New York. USA
22D AI = Kupfer und Messingwerke A.G Hirsch, Berlin Germany

A lot more letter codes were used but are unknown.”

From searching through previous IAA Forum notes, I understand that Carl Berg was joined with Basse & Selve and Carl Heckmann to form Berg-Heckmann-Selve AG, between 1935 and 1937.
I believe the above information was from an earlier Forum discussion but, frustratingly; I can’t find it again.

The above example is dated 1935 and therefore, should fall within the; Berg-Heckmann-Selve AG venture period.

The cartridge, as I understand it, is from: Artillerie-Inrichtingen.

Is there any new information regarding the relationship between AI and Carl Berg (Berg-Heckmann-Selve AG) and what the partners manufactured, or provided?

2 Likes

There is in my view no indication that Berg-Heckmann-Selve AG did make anything cartridge-related beyond supplying the metal in the form of strips or cups.

Many thanks JPeelen for your comment and I’m sure you are probably correct.

I was curious because of the significant profile of the; ‘B,’ on the headstamp. If we were to take an automotive analogy, we would have a car without a manufacturers name, but; with the ID (logo) of the steel supplier.
It just seems somewhat counter intuitive, when compared to present day norms.

Perhaps; Artillerie-Inrichtingen felt that their style was well established and only required an ID of the metal supplier for quality and tracking purposes?
However; the metal supplier information must surely have been available to them via the batch and date on the headstamp.

Our Dutch members would probably have to correct me, but I think “Staatsbedrijf der Artillerie Inrichtingen” was the only supplier of “Scherpe No. 1” cartridges for the army, at least up to the time your case was made.

The 1935 date on the headstamp ONLY identifies the year the case was made. It says nothing about what year the brass was provided, nor does it indicate when the case was loaded. i have German 9mm P08 boxes which have a great deal of information on the label, and there are examples where cases made in the late 1930s, and so dated, were loaded as late as 1943. There are similar examples from other countries.

It is important not to read too much into the headstamp regarding when the round was loaded or when the case material or other components were supplied.

Cheers,
Lew

Quite true. I have FN22 6,5 cases loaded in Java (KNIL) in the late 30s, in ammo surplussed by Indonesia in the 80s ( full 500 rd tins).
Before WWI, the Netherlands sourced cases and cups from several German firms, from Georg Roth ( as part of the Steyr rifle contract), as well as reloading fired cases.
DocAV