6.5x58 Mauser Vergueiro with DM K headstamp


#1

In my hands got an interesting example. The first time I see a 6.5x58 Mauser with the DM * K * headstamp. I always thought that the German 6.5x58 Mauser Vergueyro had a DWM headstamp.


#2

i008.radikal.ru/1408/ff/f21379c6ce58.jpg
s018.radikal.ru/i502/1408/be/fcebb38be3e2.jpg


#3

Perhaps a 6 x 58 Foerster case necked up to 6.5 m/m? Jack


#4

The 6.5x58 Mauser is well known with the "DM * K * " headstamp and quite a few examples are known.

Although used in the M1904 Portuguese Mauser, this cartridge was developed much earlier c1896-1897 as indicated by its DWM case number of #457.

The "DM * K * " hs was still used for several years by DWM after it superceeded DM-K in 1896.


#5

Yes, that is correct about DWM using the “DM” headstamp after 1896. In fact, the first 9 mm Para cartridge, c.1902, had the classic * D.M. * K. headstamp, and DWM used the “DM” headstamp on military 7.9 x 57 mm rounds thru the end of WWI in 1918, 22 years after the company became DWM.


#6

John: It seems to me that the use of DM as a designator on military contract ammunition isn’t the same as on commercial product. Military headstamps were executed to government-specified requirements; DWM’s preferences may have counted for little in this context. Jack


#7

Jack - that may be true, but is largely irrelevant here. I was simply pointing out how long DWM continued to use the “DM” headstamp on some rounds, regardless of the “why” of it. In fact, early, pre-WWI 9 mm Parabellum rounds made for the German Government were headstamped “DWM.” That as early as 1909, if I recall correctly. That would seem to indicate that the German Govt. did NOT mandate the “DM” headstamp be used on military cartridges as a whole, although perhaps from caliber to caliber there were different specifications/regulations. I simply don’t know that, one way or another.

No matter why, the “DM” headstamp stayed in existence until at least 1918.


#8

John: The headstamp list for government contract 7.9 m/m ammo during the first war shows that DWM’s cartridge cases were to bear the letters DM. There were also specifications for base marking the bullets (tho I’m not certain what the DWM code was) which was subdivided into bullets with alloyed and unalloyed lead cores. Jack


#9

Jack - what headstamp list is that? Are we talking about an original German Military document contemporary to the beginning of WWI?


#10

I guess that the DM headstamp before WWI applied only to commercial samples. Not for military (government contract) samples. I have a few samples of the German headstamps for 7.63 Mauser “mushroom” cartridges. But among them there is no DWM code, only DM.


#11

A minor correction, and perhaps some of our German scholars can correct me.

I don’ t believe there was any German “government” direction on headstamp letters. The German Army General Staff or even the Armies, which were “owned” by the districts may have assigned headstamp codes, but those would only have applied to Army orders. The Navy was separate and reported directly to the Kaiser and did their own thing with arms and ammunition. It is clear that the DWM made 9mm for operational use (not for testing) was all made for the Navy. In fact, I can’t find any evidence that DWM made any P08 ammunition for the Army prior to WWI. or even in the very early years of WWI. All known boxes from these days are Navy boxes. It looks like the early Army production for operational use was by Spandau, and then some other arsenals.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would be very interested.

DM could have well been a designation by the Army for DWM during WWI, but John is right, DWM was using their “DWM K” headstamp on Army contract P08 from at least the middle years of WWI. I could make some guesses on why, but it would be nice to have some actual documentation.

Cheers,
Lew

Edit: I do not want to hijack 2moutrage’s thread here so I’m opening another thread specifically on DWM production during WWI. Please post any answers to the issues raised by my post above on the new thread


#12

As far as I can tell from my sources cartridge cases used in assembling service lots of 7.9 m/m rifle ammunition for German military use produced by DM and its successor DWM from 1893 to 1918 were identified by the headstamp letters DM. Jack


#13

Jack - no argument there regarding 7.9 x 57 “DM” rounds. Made at Karlsruhe, I believe. Lübeck and Berlin-Borsigwalde made that caliber as well, but later, after WWI, I think, judging from the characteristics. Some of the production from Lübeck and Berlin-Borsigwalde ended up in Spain in the CW years.