600 Nitro Express "STRETCH MARKS" on factory loaded?


#1

I just received a sealed box of older 600 Nitro Express by Westley Richards. Upon opening the box and inspecting the cases, I noticed what appears to be stretch marks around the case app. 1&1/4" above the rim, and app 1" long. (please see below picture).The marks are more visible in person and hard to get in the photo.

If I hadn’t opened the box myself I would have thought these were reloaded cases.

Maybe this is due to an error in the draw process production? I believe Westley Richards Company’s private label ammunition was made by other companies, including Kynoch ?

I am surprised a maker with the prestige of Westley Richards would let these out of the factory, but errors do happen.

Any ideas on this? Please feel free to enlighten me.

Thank you,
Dave Call
A Call to Arms,LLC
http://www.ammo-one.com


#2

Hi Dave, this cartridge was made by Wolfgang Romey in Petershagen, Germany and it’s just a convenient coincidence that this headstamp could be interpreted as “Westley Richards”, a fact pretty well exploited by the British company.


#3

Thank you for the reply , so is it possible Wolfgang Romey of Petershagen, Germany made these cartridges for Westley Richards?


#4

Yes, but not exclusively as the German firm has its own brand of loaded ammunition.


#5

Historically, Wesley Richards main supplier appears to have been BMMCo, Eley and Kynoch. By the time Kynoch tailed off in the 70s Wesley Richards was owned by Holland and Holland and I doubt if WR would be buying in .600 ammo in its own name then because the calibre was much more closely associated with the H&H name.

What they do now I have no idea but I could call and ask them. I would imagine they deal with the new company that bears the Kynoch name.

Wesley Richards, now again an independant name, has undergone a sort of re-birth and celebrated its Bi-centenary last year. They still have a shop/factory in Birmingham, although not in a part of the old Gun Quarter. Their old factory was knocked down a few years back to make way for a new road (see below). You would have thought that would have finished them off but they found new premises and now make custom double rifles for wealthy clients. They are my favourite company, real survivors having gone through many changes of ownership and exploited every market from recycling old military scrap to top end custom rifles.

For the book collectors they published a specially commisioned official history to mark the 200th Anniversary but its too much for me at about $150

westleyrichards.co.uk/

This is a rare treat. Here is something that contains a lot of photos of the old factory before it was knocked down. Its both fascinating and heartbreaking, Oh to have had a day going through there! Those bundles of files and old order books,I’m sure there are a few people on here who could have gleaned a lot from them. Tools etc. And to have had a dig in that old backstop . “the test area was littered with old fired cases” I’m going to have to go and have a lie down. Eighth picture down, do they look like barrels on the floor?

28dayslater.co.uk/forums/sho … m-02-06-09


#6

[quote=“VinceGreen”]Historically, Wesley Richards main supplier appears to have been BMMCo, Eley and Kynoch. By the time Kynoch tailed off in the 70s Wesley Richards was owned by Holland and Holland and I doubt if WR would be buying in .600 ammo in its own name then because the calibre was much more closely associated with the H&H name.

What they do now I have no idea but I could call and ask them. I would imagine they deal with the new company that bears the Kynoch name.

Wesley Richards, now again an independant name, has undergone a sort of re-birth and celebrated its Bi-centenary last year. They still have a shop/factory in Birmingham, although not in a part of the old Gun Quarter. Their old factory was knocked down a few years back to make way for a new road (see below). You would have thought that would have finished them off but they found new premises and now make custom double rifles for wealthy clients. They are my favourite company, real survivors having gone through many changes of ownership and exploited every market from recycling old military scrap to top end custom rifles.

For the book collectors they published a specially commisioned official history to mark the 200th Anniversary but its too much for me at about $150

westleyrichards.co.uk/

This is a rare treat. Here is something that contains a lot of photos of the old factory before it was knocked down. Its both fascinating and heartbreaking, Oh to have had a day going through there! Those bundles of files and old order books,I’m sure there are a few people on here who could have gleaned a lot from them. Tools etc. And to have had a dig in that old backstop . “the test area was littered with old fired cases” I’m going to have to go and have a lie down. Eighth picture down, do they look like barrels on the floor?

28dayslater.co.uk/forums/sho … m-02-06-09[/quote]

Vince, thank you for your input, and yes 8th picture down did look like barrels on the floor, or pipe?
I am still wondering about the Stretch marks on the 600 Nitro, most likely an error in the draw process? Best Dave Call


#7

So Wolfgang Romey and other ammunition makers made private label ammunition under contact for Westley Richards, that would be understandable as Westley Richards was a firearm manufacturer.
Is the W.R. on the pictured 600 Nitro was more for Wolfgang Romey or Westley Richards?
I still wonder the reason for the “Stretch Marks” I would think most likely an error in the draw process, but I am not a ammunition manufacturer expect, so it is still in question.
Thank you, Dave


#8

hello
i have the same mark on my WR rounds (6.5x70R,7x72R and 8x72R)


#9

Sorry, they do appear to be just drawing marks. I should have said that. I would have thought the case was Wolfgang Romey but do we have an age? I would say the case is very modern.

Its slightly wrong to describe Wesley Richards as just a firearms manufacturer. In the past they were a major seller of ammo although I dont actually think they ever made much of it themselves. Certainly not in quantity although in the early years I would bet they made some. They were clever enough to produce a lot of their own calibres and cleverly exploited the no military calibres rule in India which spread unofficially through the rest of the Empire and for a time they pretty much had the market to themselves.


#10

Romey started to make old British cartridges in 1983, according to his website: www.wr-munition.com
The tiny pentagons enclosing the WR on the casehead are part of his trademark. So its Wolfgang Romey, not Westley Richards.


#11

[quote=“JPeelen”]Romey started to make old British cartridges in 1983, according to his website: wr-munition.com
[/quote]

that would have a certain logic, by 1983 there was a real supply problem with all these old cartridges. The old Kynoch stock had run out, although the demand was so low it took a decade to wash through. Around the world several very small manufacturers started producing but the volumes would not tempt many.
Thats possibly why these cases show drawing marks, they were quite likely to have been made in a way that could be described as a back room operation. It wouldn’t have been worth spending a fortune tooling up to produce a cartridge with a worldwide annual demand that maybe didn’t make three figures.Thats not being disrespectful towards the manufacturer, indeed all credit to Romey for keeping the calibres alive.

Looking at Wolfgang Romey’s website his prices are very good. A .600NE for 20Euros ($20), thats very cheap, way below what others would charge.


#12

we had two sealed boxes of 600’s by Westleys in our last sale. I contacted the buyer after about obtaining one & he opened one box. They had the, as shown, Wolfgang Romey headstamp, which I already had, so nice to know what was in them.

Westley’s US retail outlet is/was asking $200.00 for a box (5-size & as of last year?)

My 2¢ on the “stretch marks” is that is somewhat typical of Romey’s product. Martin Golland noted a complaint about the powder he used/uses was going south in his collection not too long ago in (I think) both the IAA & ECRA journals.

Great link showing the old factory. Wish I’d have gotten into that, (as we all do?)


#13

[quote=“VinceGreen”]Sorry, they do appear to be just drawing marks. I should have said that. I would have thought the case was Wolfgang Romey but do we have an age? I would say the case is very modern.

Its slightly wrong to describe Wesley Richards as just a firearms manufacturer. In the past they were a major seller of ammo although I dont actually think they ever made much of it themselves. Certainly not in quantity although in the early years I would bet they made some. They were clever enough to produce a lot of their own calibres and cleverly exploited the no military calibres rule in India which spread unofficially through the rest of the Empire and for a time they pretty much had the market to themselves.[/quote]

An ammunition seller (Westley Richards) is not a manufacturer


#14

Dave
At one time Westley’s was an ammunition manufacturer, however that was long, long ago.