7,5 Swiss "Aufschlag-Geschosspatrone"

I found this packet, hidden in my drawers…its from 1927…but I do not knew this bullet type.
See the original handwritten box label, produced at Thun on 28 September of 1927, and an addition on the label:: “nach Z.Nr 5378 der M+FT”, which means after drawing Nr…of Munitionsfabrik Thun…
I think, its a form of explosive bullet, but I want to know, what the drawing number maybe shows…
Have anybody info on this, and how scarce is it?

Thx
Peter

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Oskar Matter, explosive bullet designer as notorious in Switzerland as in Germany, perhaps also elsewhere (UK?), wrote in 1932 in journal Schweizer Soldat that he had discussed explosive bullets with Swiss military as early as 1927. This provoked a response by a Colonel Otter, that tests in 1928 showed a danger of the explosive going off prematurely in the rifle barrel.
The publications alas do not give the least technical details.

Thanks J.Peelen,

I do have a Matter-Bullet in a 7,9, and some loose bullets…but they look different from this ones…
Thats why I am interested, to find something out about this named drawing…

Maybe Fede has something??
Or some of our swiss collectors??

Stay safe…and at home
PP

Here one Matter design.
Drawing is from Labbett’s document estate which is in the IAA resource center.

Hi Peter,

I think it is an incendiary. This one came from Manfred B.'s auction many years ago.

Regards,
Paul


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In a nr1 Swiss collection!


thx for this info- very interesting-, but it does not clarify the cartridge from 1927…it is the bullet type shown by Paul, and by a drawing from MFT. Do you may have access to their drawing material at MFT…??? or knew someone, who may have?
thx in advance…
Peter

the Matter bullets shown by you are very similar to the SAPI bullets from todays MEN Line

Salut Peter si tu vends je suis preneur
Jf

thx Paul
I think that nails it down, but still I want the drawing, if someone has access to the MFT Archiv…but Switzerland was always secretive …
stay safe
Peter

I have only these…

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yes, the Rauchspur Drawings i do have, see here…are a bit different, now with data to each part…
Its interesting, that it shows in the history a drawing 5877, just one number short, of the number on my packet…(5377 instead 5378)
This bullet (mean my bullet, and the one shown by Paul) seems, to have no “exit”-holes, as it has no movabel inner core, to press on the Phospor…and insofar are no “Rauchspur”..
Than it would only collapse on hitting something (which may explain the Name “Aufschlag” Patrone in contrary to the “Rauchspur”-Patrone)
For the non-germans/non swiss, the Rauchspur means a smoke-Tracer, emitting Smoke during flight, to make the trajectory visible…an old form of day tracer…
Here the other drawings I have:

PP

oui, pas de problem, except Corona…
En case, le meeting a suisse est sure, je prend le cartouche avec moi…
Salut, PP

The box shown by me, is maybe only an experimental issue (handwritten), as the issued RAUCHSPUR (already them are very uncommon) has an armylabel as I show here…
Its a very bad xerox, which I got many many years ago from Fred Datig…
and are from 1937, not from 1927
07,5x55Rauchspur-Bx-schlecht BW

sincerely
Peter

Peter, here is a better picture

Rgds

Rauch

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thx, and yes it reminds me, that the Rauchspur has a green base, as indicator. And as it also is called TRACER (but Smoketracer)on the box, this makes sense, as the normal tracer in that time had a red base…to avoid mixups…
But booth have an other thing in mind, as my cartridge shown in the beginning of this thread…
Mine was than a pure Incendiary cartridge by hitting a target and setting off the phosphor charge…anyway still interested in drawing number 5378…

Matter bullet with aluminum tip, dia 8.19 mm, 36 mm length. You clearly see the 3 different parts

Interesting discussion but I need help to understand what the proper designation and function is for this cartridge.

Forensic’s photo from above:
Untitled

Using Google Translator “Aufschlag-Geschosspatrone” = Impact bullet cartridge

Paul Smith’s photo from above:

From one the of drawings posted by Jf above:

From the drawing “f” (marked in red) indicates the hole in the bullet jacket (solder filled until the cartridge is fired) through which air reaches and reacts with the phosphorus resulting in the release of a smoke trail i.e. a “smoke tracer”. Correct or not correct?

So is this cartridge considered to be a smoke tracer or an incendiary cartridge? Or both an incendiary and tracer cartridge?

Also what is the correct name for this cartridge? (German & English if possible)

Thanks,

Brian

We do not know whether the “Aufschlag-Geschoss-Patronen” use the bullet design shown in the drawings or not. That is why Forensic asked if soemone has knowledge about drawing 5378 by Munitionsfabrik Thun.

My understanding of the Swiss name for the cartridge is “impact indicating”, or observation bullet in English. That in my view is quite different from the smoke tracers shown in the drawings.

Smoke tracer is Rauchspur as shown.

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yes, thats it. My cartridges does not have exit holes as described in my text…so it has nothing to do, with the shown drawings of the Rauchspur from 1936…this model from 1927 is, as JPeelen already wrote, a spotter (I think thats the word in english), or a solely incendiary…but not like the german PmK, or Phosphor from ww1, as it does not have a core at all…
As it has no holes in the jacket, it cannot emit a fume trail, like the later Rauchspur, which are shown in the drawings and in the pic with the box from dutch, with a green casebase…
pp

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I am not sure if this helps but here some Matter patents:

CH000000132640A_.pdf (100.9 KB)

CH000000132947A_.pdf (157.3 KB)

CH000000147835A_all_pages.pdf (96.3 KB)

CH000000169075A_all_pages.pdf (102.3 KB)

FR000000809307A_.pdf (321.0 KB)