7.62 Fake Fake!

I was going through some stuff and spotted this. It had been a long time since I had seen one of the “famous” phonograph needle flechette load Fake pictured in Datig Vol 3 on page. When I took a second look, I decided it must be a fake of the fake pictured by Datig. The shoulder is not even a 7.62 NATO and the headstamp is over 10 years too late to be the one described by Datig.


Oooohh, a 7.62 Nato Fake-Fake! Quite rare and desirable! The perfect Christmas present for NatoDave!

Give it another 50 years and folks will think it is a rare experimental since they wont know what a phonograph needle is.

Jonny C
At least I know what to expect in my Christmas stocking this year :)> Better than the coal I got last year :>(

Nice to see a “real” example of this fake - what is the headstamp? Are those really phonograph needles? They look way too complicated to the ones I saw my grandmother use.

Always looking for GENUINE 7.62mm NATO cartridges!

Dave, The headstamp is "(+) WRA 66. Datig says the Legit Fakes are usually headstamped F A 51. The only reference I have to the legit fake is Datig’s drawing, but mine has different shape needles than Fred illustrates. He also notes that there are two variations, one with 14 needles and one with 17. As best I can count, mine has 18.

I no longer remember what a phonograph needle is suppose to look like so I can’t comment on the appearance of these needles.

Tell your lovely wife that if she is looking for a really unique Christmas gift for you, she should contact me!


Lew, there were different shapes of these (see link below). I just wonder how they should have been stabilized in flight (not to say they would not stabilize at all).
Back in the old days when I was into medium calibers I noticed that many fakes were recognizeable as such because the “fakers” knew nothing about ballistics and created all sorts of monstrosities.
Same I observed with many people “collecting” (not faking anything) which are/were absolutely clueless how things work or what the technical thought behind the item was. For many people only shiny pointy and declared “rare” and “mint” items with a background of Vietnam, WWI, WWII, SS, special forces/spec ops, “looking cool” and what so ever do count but not the real story behind nor why things were made like this. Sad but true.

google.de/search?hl=de&gs_rn … tQaMp4GABA

“Legit Fakes”

Hah, I love it!

EOD, Thanks! I particularly like the photo at the link below. When the international restrictions on ammo become too sever I will start collecting phonograph needles, and this Fake Fake can be part of that collection.



Ha! They look like torture tools of a mad dentist. If I got it right there are plenty of collectors for these needles already.

We all may need to prepare for the day when ammo will become political incorrect and posession (even of ammo components) will be highly restircted and only be allowed to those dictating us.
So we may start looking at stamp collecting, grammophone needles or becoming perfect citizens by watching TV and let our brains chill…

I take umbrage at the implications that phonograph needles are relics of the distant past, something that your grandmother used. I’m here to tell you that when I was a wee lad, our living room had a wind-up phonograph and we used phonograph needles to play our 78 rpm records. The needles came in different shapes and sizes and you could quickly change them to accomodate the record you wanted to play.

And, I’m far from the oldest guy here! ;-) ;-)

Fake cartridges have been discussed here on the Forum, more than once. I have always felt that some are so well made that even the most advanced collector cannot spot it. At that point, if you cannot tell it’s a fake, is it still a fake.???


I think a fake is not defined by it’s recognition no?

The (also fake) big-brother in 30-06 with a WCC 54 headstamp & 14 needles. Above it is a .228" dia. example, apparently for smaller long-playing 5.56’s with 7 needles.

There is an Israeli 9 mm similar to these, as I recall. Are they fakes too? Just wondered.

John, Is this the round you are talking about? If so this is actually made by the Cobra Gun Company in the UK. The samples that have shown up have IMI headstamps because that was the cases they used for that batch of cartridges. Most of those sold have no headstamp. I have spoken to the gentleman who holds the patent on this cartridge who is known to a number of the members of the Forum. Completely legit item.

If you are talking about a different IMI load, I don’t know if it, which puts it in a very large group of 9mms.


PS: Looking at this round again, it likely would have worked just as well with phonograph needles, and since the Fakes above appear to have a single cup filled with needles , they likely would have worked as well as this Cobra load (which was not designed as a flechette, but as a prefragmented bullet). A case of science following art!


I am pretty sure that is the load I was talking about. Thanks. Just curiosity.

I have this one.