7.62 Nato : TAA


#1

Hello,

what is this maker observed on a 7.62x51 Nato ball round ?
Anything special with the mark on the primer ?

Thanks in advance,

JFL


#2

The primer looks like CBC to me. I heard that they had a US contract so TAA may be their code.

The latest copy of mil-hbk 1461 I have is from 1999 doesn’t list either CBC nor the TAA code.

Does anyone have a later copy of these codes. I suspect they are now online and available only to those with .mil access. Perhaps someone in the service can check and confirm that 1461 is now online. Then I could quit searching on Google.

Cheers,

Lew


#3

Primer definitely says CBC. But the headstamp to me appears similar to an Israeli TAA I have. The TAA Nato contract one I have has a space between the TAA and date though (also Light lavendar/pinkish annulus paint) but is very similar.


#4

It was made by Taiwan Arsenal, Nankang, Taipei. Primer is CBC with typical “V” symbol.


#5

According to an online press release cancelling the Taiwan contract dated March 1, 2011 it states only 5.56mm ammuinition was made by the Taiwan Arsenal not 7.62mm. Not sure…

"TAIPEI – The Ministry of National Defense said Monday that a contract to supply ammunition to the U.S. had not been extended, but dismissed a media report that an arsenal will have to be closed as a result.
The U.S. armed forces signed the contract five years ago with the ministry to buy 500 million 5.56mm M-16 rifle rounds made by the 205th Arsenal under the Combined Logistics Command, the China Times reported that same day.

The report continued that the renewal of the contract, which expired this year, was won by a U.S. company.

The ministry said the export deal was terminated because it came to an end and the buyer did not express further demand for a continuation of the contract.

The order helped the factory, which was on the verge of closing down at that time, to earn profits of at least NT$2 billion (US$6.73 million), the ministry said.

A defense official dismissed the report that the bullet production line at the arsenal will be forced to close soon. "


#6

Here is a similar one with spacing between the letters and years and has a Pink/lavendar annulus paint.
Sorry this part is an edit to my original. This one shown is a 5.56mm cartridge so may in fact be made in Taiwan. My Israeli (or thought to be Israeli) one has no spaces like the first sample and is in 7.62mm.


On another note the US contracted Israel and Korea to manufacture 7.62mm Nato Military rounds in the year 2004 (5 year contract)…Taiwan in 2005 for 5.56mm (5 year contract)and I have also heard some ammunition even being made by Spain as Lake City can not keep up. TAA for Taiwan on a headstamp thus far has only been seen on 5.56mm and 30-06 cartridges as of the year 2010. But who knows witht he governments secrecy…


#7

And many other countries…


#8

Is it at all possible this could be a reload with the CBC primer? Just asking as the CBC part is confusing.


#9

I’m a bit confused. I Doubt that the TAA code would have been authorized for use by two manufacturers at about the same time. In fact, old codes are retained for some time. The 1999 copy of 1461 has a number of listings for IMI, but indicates the IMI Yatzhak small arms plant used the code TZZ but used the TZ code by mistake on two lots. It also indicated that the TZZ code was inactive in 1999. I know they hold codes in an inactive status for some time after the last contract which tells me that it is unlikely that IMI used the TAA code in 07 & 08 and then Taiwan used it for some lots of ammo before March 2011.

cartridgecorner, Earlier you mentioned an IMI marked box. Could you please post the box label for this item. It probably has an NSN which will tell us the country that established the data package for this ammo. This could be a strong hint on who ordered it.

By the way, as far as I know all DOD contracts, unless they are specifically classified have to be formally announced (they use to call it the Commerce Business Daily-now it is somewhere on the internet) even if they are sole source to a single contractor. This is a requirement in public law. They announce both that they are going to award a contract, and then they announce that they have awarded it. I can’t imagine why any ammo contract would be classified.

I checked with a friend. Go to Fedbizops/opportunities which today lists about 27,000 contracts the federal government is considering letting that have been listed in the last ??? days. Go to advanced search and under NAICS code search small arms ammunition or use code 332992. Today this brings up 51 notices related to small arms ammunition. The second one is 9mm and 38 special ammunition for Homeland Security originally listed on 9 May 11. Select this action and then select what you want to look at in the document (list on right hand side).

The title is:

[quote]STATEMENT OF WORK FOR
9MM LUGER or 9MM LUGER +P CALIBER AMMUNITION (124 GRAIN)
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)[/quote]

The scope of the contract is as follows:

[quote]1.0 SCOPE
The scope of this contract is for 2,950,000 rounds of 9mm Luger or 9mm Luger +P Caliber Ammunition (124 Grain) per year for one base year plus four option years, delivered to numerous Department of Homeland Security (DHS) component locations nationwide including those in the continental U.S., Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, the Northern Marianna Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. This Statement of Work delineates ammunition performance criteria and testing to be used for the evaluation of duty ammunition.
[/quote]

Later it tells the bidders that they need to submit a Solicitation Test Sample (Bid Sample) of 6000 rounds and may submit two different loads with their bid. It also establishes the First Article test sample at 6000 rounds and the Lot acceptance sample at 3000 rounds.

The headstamp requirement is:

Eventually there will be an announcement on Fedbizops telling you who won the contract. There may also be an announcement telling you who is bidding on the contract (and therefore make 6000 rounds for the bid sample).

Doesn’t sound very secret to me, but sure it time consuming.

The next one doesn’t say it in the title but it is an AF contract for over 500K of 38 Special that was awarded on 26 May 11 to AXXON INTERNATIONAL LLC,1911 MIDLAND RD,ROCK HILL SC 29730-3373 which is listed on the internet as selling men’s footwear so they likely are selling ammo from a foreign supplier.

Lots of work, but not secret.

Hope this helps.

Lew


#10

Yes there are tons of contracts. Was specifically looking for 7.62 and 5.56 on the DOD letters and such. Often as you know there have been multiple suers with one headstamp with slight variations when on contract. I could list several but we know this can be the rare case. Taiwan Arsenal used the 60A on 30-06 cartridges and TAA reportedly on 5.56mm only used for training ammunition some 3 Billion rounds were produced. The Taiwan Arsenal faced bankruptcy when the US ended the contract but somehow managed to stay afloat thus far. Nothing is for sure as the israeli box I was tralking about I only managed to see by a photo with the ammo from the guy who sent it to me. It was all white with very little writing on it is what I remember. But we know much ammo is “back doored” in that part of the world too. But I can find no proof what so ever of the Taiwan arsenal ever making 7.62 ammunition during the past 10 years. It was also discussed in the US government that when the USA contracted Israel for a huge amount of 7.62 and 50 cal ammunition in 2004-2009 that a house rep from Hawaii demanded that NO Israeli ammunition be used in Afghanistan or Iraq due to the animosity of those nations with Israel. Maybe why the headstamp is different?Just a thought, but the short answer is there is not 100% proof thus far for this headstamp in 7.62 yet. I would love to see some for sure.


#11

Thanks for all these information.


#12

Late but I just came across this image in the web, maybe one can need it.
As per a member at AFTE the factory code is positively identified as Taiwanese in the latest MIL-STD series publication (which is confidential).

Source: internet
62x51_tracer%20M62_ball%20M80_belted_2008