7.62 Russian mosin clip

General Ammunition Discussion
#9

From memory, all my files are buried away in storage, this was taken from an original Kynoch drawing. The use of the word “charger” on the drawing is indicative of a British source.

There were about a dozen British makers of these chargers although a paper drawn up for the Cabinet mentions some that I’ve never seen markings from, these might have been sub-contractors as British output of 7,62x54R was huge and there were often shortages of chargers, ammunition cases or bulk packaging.

The only US producer of chargers that I know of was Winchester, theirs have two stamped holes in the base, one towards each end.

Peter.

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#10

thanks
jp

#11

This was taken from a Woolwich drawing of the Mark I charger dated September 9, 1916, with modifications up to April 6, 1921.

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#12

The major US maker of 7.62x54R in WWI was Western
Cartridge of East Alton, Illinois. (Frost). Whether they made clips themselves or had Winchester (east coast) make them is unknown to me.

Doc AV

#13

To everybody that has input to this post!!
I have about 6 of those clips they are brass coated without any markings and one
made from steel Winchester?? with 2 holes in the bottom I always considered
them so much junk I am some what shocked what I am reading.The one from
steel fits the drawing.Do they have any value???
Sherryl

#14

If anyone has an example of 7.62 x 54R cartridges made by Western Cartridge Company during WW1 could they please post a photo here? Remington and Winchester made many millions of cartridges. The earliest I have seen made by Western is headstamped WESTERN 20 (Made for Finland?)
Randy

7.62x54R "Western 20"
#15

Randy, do you have an image of the “WESTERN 20” headstamp?

#16

Please see attached scans:
62%20HS%2010001
WESTERN 20
62%20HS%2020001
WESTERN 20 with ring crimped primer
62%20HS%2030001
WESTERN 40 (also made for the Finns, I believe)

Randy

7.62x54R "Western 20"
#17

I should also have included that the WESTERN 20 's are Berdan primed.
62%20SECTIONED0001

Randy

#18

Randy, great headstamps! Thanks a lot!

#19

Not only did the Winchester? or Western? have holes in the bottom it was shorter. This one is 64.14 mm long.

62MN%20bottoms
7.62MN bottoms.jpg810×408 314 KB
62MN%20clips%20side
7.62MN clips side.jpg810×399 368 KB

#20

Western packet, image from the internet, 7.62 x 54r.net. I’ll bet the cartridges have WESTERN 20 headstamp. What would be the translation of the Cyrillic? characters?

62%20PACKET%202
WESTERN 7.62 PACKET 2.jpg1000×833 53.9 KB

Randy

#21

The cyrillic letters seem to be 3L. B., so perhaps ‘3 line’ (.3 inch) caliber and no suggestion for the B. Jack

#22

Berdan?

#23

This US produced 7,62x54R was all paid for by the UK Goverment through the offices of JP Morgan in New York who acted as Britain’s purchasing agents in the US. This was in addition to large scale production of 3 Line cartridges by factories in the UK.

At some point in the First War it was suggested that the Peters Cartridge Co should divert some of their production of 0,303" to 7,62x54R … does anyone have wartime dated Peters cartridges in this calibre ?

Here’s a British Ministry of Munitions document that shows the immense level of production undertaken on behalf of the then Russian government;

4%20copy
4 copy.jpg1090×1746 467 KB

Peter

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#24

Pete: You were wondering if B was for Berdan? It does sound plausible here. Jack

#25

WAG on my part I don’t know either.

#26

3 л.Б. - means 3 л - 3 linear, Б - боевой (combat (with ball bullet))

WESTERN 20 cartridges is not for Finnland. They for Russia.

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#27

Roger that………Thank You!

#28

Until withdrawing in April, 1920, the U.S. had military forces in Russia assisting the “White Russians” in their fight against the “Red Russian” communists. It is unlikely that U.S. firms would be selling ammunition to the Russian government while we were actually engaged in combat operations against them.
Some of the allied forces, including U.S. troops were armed with M 1891 Mosin Nagant rifles to simplify logistics support. It is more likely that the 1920 ammunition was intended for these users than for the Russian government.