7.62 Tokarev or 7.63 Mauser headstamp


#1



Manufacturer?


#2

This are russian factory no.3 Ulianovsk machinery plant.


#3

It is interesting that the entire base of these rounds seems to be stained or painted black. Is that original to the cartridges? If so, does anyone know what it means>


#4

John, I think they’re polished for visibility.


#5

Jon - you could be right about that. I was looking past the head though, at the extractor groove bevel, where there seems to be black paint on some of it. Again, it could be the lighting. We’ll have to hear from our new friend in China, to see if he knows. He may not, since he may only have this picture and not the cartridge.


#6


“403”?


manfuacturer?


manfuacturer? and “403”?


manfuacturer?


#7
  1. “403” is the case number from DWM for 7,63mm Mauser cases
  2. Cartoucherie Belge Cureghem, 403 has the same denotation as by DWM

#8

#2 is a mystery, but I believe it was made in China.
#4 is also a mystery headstamp. I have seen its origin listed as Spain, Austria, and China.


#9

Thanks



my clear picture of the case & bullet


#10


??


#11

Probably Chinese. Is there a colored case mouth seal?


#12

[quote=“tiengulden”]
??[/quote]

USSR, before WWII


#13

Unheadstamped Tokarev cartridges were produced in China, Czechoslovakia, USA, Hungary, and the USSR, and possibly even Poland and Austria. It is very difficult to identify the origin without case and neck information, and perhaps primer diameter.


#14

[quote=“Jon C.”]#2 is a mystery, but I believe it was made in China.
#4 is also a mystery headstamp. I have seen its origin listed as Spain, Austria, and China.[/quote]

Some people think that the bullet were manufactured in Germany.


#15

[quote=“Jon C.”]#2 is a mystery, but I believe it was made in China.
#4 is also a mystery headstamp. I have seen its origin listed as Spain, Austria, and China.[/quote]
Please provide some similar bullet pictures from Spain or Austria.


#16

This odd script headstamp was probably made FOR China, but it is entirely possible that it was not made IN china. I do not know if the dates on the cartridges are the Western Caliber (1912 in the case of your cartridge) or some Chinese calender. I suspect, though, that they are earlier than the era of the People’s Republic of China. The only two calibers I know of with this headstamp are 7.62/3 x 25mm and 7.9 x 57mm Model 1888, although the symbol is reported on a 20mm shell as well. I have the 7.9mm, which is headstamped “ey 96 RC *” (I have used the letters “ey” simply as the closest replication of the symbol that I can do here). The RC could stand for Republic of China, but I don’t know when the initial Chinese Republic, not the Poeple’s Republic, was formed. Further, there is no real documentation for what the “RC” stands for that I am aware of. The date on the 7.9 x 57 would be appropriate for my Model 1888 cartridge if that is the Western calender-date on the headstamp (1896). It may not be, of course.

Almost everyone, including cartridge headstamp guide that shows a 7.62 x 25 with headstamp date “3 15” assumes that these were made in Communist China, and therefore assumes that the caliber of the pistol round is 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. I am inclined to believe, until I am proven wrong by sound documentation, that these predate the PRC-era, and perhaps even the Tokarev pistol, and should be classified as 7.63mm Mauser cartridges.

By the way, Philippe Regesntreif in his book “Culots des Munitions Atlas, Tome II” shows the same symbol on a 20 x 138mm cartridge, along with “P” and “24” on the headstamp, as a product of Polte, Werk Magdeburg, made for export. Later in the book, though, he shows this symbol on the 7.63 x 25 and 7.9 x 57 as unknown. He does credit the headstamp to 7.63 Mauser, not to 7.62 Tokarev, however.

Just some food for thought.

John Moss


#17

[quote=“JohnMoss”]This odd script headstamp was probably made FOR China, but it is entirely possible that it was not made IN china. I do not know if the dates on the cartridges are the Western Caliber (1912 in the case of your cartridge) or some Chinese calender. I suspect, though, that they are earlier than the era of the People’s Republic of China. The only two calibers I know of with this headstamp are 7.62/3 x 25mm and 7.9 x 57mm Model 1888, although the symbol is reported on a 20mm shell as well. I have the 7.9mm, which is headstamped “ey 96 RC *” (I have used the letters “ey” simply as the closest replication of the symbol that I can do here). The RC could stand for Republic of China, but I don’t know when the initial Chinese Republic, not the Poeple’s Republic, was formed. Further, there is no real documentation for what the “RC” stands for that I am aware of. The date on the 7.9 x 57 would be appropriate for my Model 1888 cartridge if that is the Western calender-date on the headstamp (1896). It may not be, of course.

Almost everyone, including cartridge headstamp guide that shows a 7.62 x 25 with headstamp date “3 15” assumes that these were made in Communist China, and therefore assumes that the caliber of the pistol round is 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. I am inclined to believe, until I am proven wrong by sound documentation, that these predate the PRC-era, and perhaps even the Tokarev pistol, and should be classified as 7.63mm Mauser cartridges.

By the way, Philippe Regesntreif in his book “Culots des Munitions Atlas, Tome II” shows the same symbol on a 20 x 138mm cartridge, along with “P” and “24” on the headstamp, as a product of Polte, Werk Magdeburg, made for export. Later in the book, though, he shows this symbol on the 7.63 x 25 and 7.9 x 57 as unknown. He does credit the headstamp to 7.63 Mauser, not to 7.62 Tokarev, however.

Just some food for thought.

John Moss[/quote]
please post some pics of the similar headstamp


#18

A picture of my 8mm round’s headstamp will be posted by my friend Joe when he gets time. It won’t be too long - probably this evening or tomorrow unless he is away. It is not the best picture, but I think you will be able to see what needs to be seen.


#19

Headstamp similar to that of the 7.62/7.63mm round pictured previously. This is a Model 1888 Mauser round with CNCS FMJ RN bullet. If the date on the headstamp is the Western Calender, than it was made in 1896. If it is a Chinese calender, I have no idea what its Western equivalent is.

John Moss


#20

The 3 O’Clock entry on the headstamp is “96” and the 6 O’Clock entry is “RC” in very plain Western letters and numbers. thought I would clarify that, since with my poor eyes, I can’t really be certain looking at the picture I took. John Moss