Is there any difference between the standard russian 7,62 tokarev loading and the 7,62 M48 one used in Czechoslovakia?I was told that the M48 was far more powerful than the standard soviet cartridge so that the 2 cartridges should be listed separately such as 7,65 Borchardt and the 7,63 Mauser.Is it true?
I have seen reports that the Czech is loaded hotter, and other reports that it is the same as Soviet TT ammo. I have shot both in TTs and CZ52s and have noticed no great difference.
Jon C. is the expert here, but I have heard for many years that the Czech 7.62x25mm was a “hot” load for SMG’s, but also enough evidence to the contrary to make me beleive it is not true. The box labels if I recall correctly are clearly marked “pistol cartridges” in one form or another, and one would think that if they were not suitable for pistol use, the boxes would be marked as such.
I wonder if this beleif that the ammunition is “hot” is as a result of a few bad lots many years ago that gave pistol shooter problems. Perhaps they assumed that it was SMG ammo as a result?
I believe you are the expert, and I agree with your assessment.
In my 7.62 x 25mm Tokarev File, I have the results of some actual shooting tests, taken from the internet. All are for ordinary ball cartridges.
Unfortunately, the test gun is not specified. However, I am sure it was the same for all rounds, so comparisons should be valid. I realize to be scholarly, the test results should have included the weapon used for testing, the make and model of the chronograph used, the temperature at the time tested and the altitude at which tested, as well as the distaqnce from the muzzle that the chronograph screens were placed, but none of those were given. Again, though, the figures should be comparitive.
Russian - Headstamp: 439 48
Muzzle velocity: 1354 fps
Standard Deviation: 45.7 fps
Czech - Headstamp: bxn 52
Muzzle velocity: 1482 fps
Standard deviation: 51.7 fps
Czech - Sellier & Bellot commercial - Headstamp: S&B 7.62 x 25
Muzzle velocity: 1544 fps (Magnetic bullet)
Standard deviation: 20.7 fps
Muzzle Velocity: 1525 fps (Non-magnetic bullet)
Standard deviation: 24.8 fps
Chinese - Headstamp: 911 80
Muzzle velocity: 1478 fps
Standard deviation: 20 fps
Polish - Headstamp: (21) 32 20 53
Muzzle Velocity: 1483 fps
Standard deviation: 12.5 fps
Yugoslavia (Serbia) - Headstamp: PPY 7.62 TT (sold boxed as.30 Mauser_
Muzzle velocity: 1378 fps
Standard Deviation: 21.3 fps
Note on Yugo load - this may have been loaded lighter than Prvi Partizan’s normal specifications for the Tokarev Pistol and for SMGs, as it was boxed as .30 Mauser ammunition. We don’t know that - it is simply a caveat to this particular comparison.
All bullets in the loads tested above ran from 84 to 86 grains.
It would seem that the Czech ammunition is loaded hotter than the Russian, but then so were all the other military loads tested and published on the website from which this information came. (w3.one.net/~melchar/tokarev)
This information was printed out by me on May 17th, 1999. I have not checked the site since.
I have no comment to any of this other than to say that I have always been told by my Czech friends that the Czech Tokarev ammunition was loaded to about 20% higher velocities, obtained thru better powder, than the Russian loadings. I am not equipped to judge the validity of those statements, but if the tests cited above are typical, the actual amount would be closer to from 8 to 10% hotter. I wish I had the equipment to make a real test. I have the cartridges and the guns, but do not have the means for taking altitude (other than maps) and do not own a chronograph. Accuracy has always been of considerably more interest to me for almost any purpose than is velocity, within reasonable norms.