How many different headstamps/dates are known in this load?
That Municion posting is not correct. The top headstamp is actually a North Korean 7.65 Browning round. I will confirm at home, but I believe I have 11 and 311 headstamps for the Chinese 7.65 rimless round.
No, I mean Type 84 load fot Type 84 pistol.
Fede - I have the following in my collection:
11 89 Ball Round (Red primer seal)
301 84 Ball Round
311 93 Ball Round
301 83 Anti-Skyjack load Nickeled-steel sabot with what appears to be a black plastic projectile. This round has a snapped primer and may be a dummy from a European trade show.
11 02 Dummy Round (GMCS Bullet)
11 03 Dummy Round (no flash holes) (GMCS Bullet)
311 90 Dummy (no flash holes)
311 91 Dummy
Unless noted, the dummy rounds only ID is the lack of a primer. Unless noted, the dummy rounds have flash holes, and are simply a normal case and bullet assembled together. All rounds are brass cased, and unless noted, have GM bullets. All bullets are FMJ RN except the anti-skyjack round. None except for 11 89 have colored seals. Primers all have brass cups.
I am sure there are many other dates, and perhaps other arsenal numbers, but these are all I have seen.
Technically, the "Type 84 Mini-Pistol Cartridge " (Designation as shown in Norinco “Compilation of Products - Ammunition - Volume 2”) is the anti-skyjack round. It has a 5.6 gram total cartridge weight and a velocity of 200 mps. Bullet weight is not given.
There are also the Type 64 7.62 mm Pistol cartridge and the Type 67 7.62 Silent Pistol Cartridge. While the Types 67 and 84 are shown as suitable for only the weapons of the same Type designation (Siletn Pistol Type 67 and Mini-Pistol Type 84 respectively, The type 64 cartridge is shown as suitable for the Types 64, 77 and 84 pistol. Further, the cases are identical for all three, and the total cartridge weight is the same between the Type 64 and Type 67, according to the previously-cited Norinco document… That makes identification of a Type 64 cartridge from a Type 67 cartridge very difficult. The Type 84 cartridge can be identified immediately by is sabot bullet, of course.
I lump them all together in my own catalog. I have found no way to separate the Type 64 from the Type 67.
This one you describe is the Type 84 load:
“301 83 Anti-Skyjack load Nickeled-steel sabot with what appears to be a black plastic projectile. This round has a snapped primer and may be a dummy from a European trade show.”
Thank you very much.
Fede - you are fast! You read my posting before I edited it to add much more. Amazing - it was only up for seconds in the original form. You might revisit it, although you are absolutely correct, of course.
It seems that we are missing a lot of headstamps.
The only round I can confirm as a Type 64 is headstamped 11 64. This is also the earliest date I have seen.
Ball rounds also exist with headstamps 301 80 and 311 92.
The one headstamped 11 89 is by far the easiest to find.
Fede - 311 93 is a Type 64 for sure. I have the printed box for it. I have another, commercial-style box for the Type 64 cartridges also, but unfortunately, received it empty.
I think we will remain missing most of the story on these. It is a cartridge pretty unique to China, and while I suspect they would work in .32 autos, even if China were to offer large lots on the surplus market, I doubt many importers would bid on them, since pistols for this series of rounds are almost unknown in the West. Most of the rounds found around are dummies, and I suspect many of them were originally key chains (the ones with flash holes), and others taken off toys made of dummy cartridges, a novelty in China that seems popular there according to things I have seen and read. One of my 7.62 x 17 Rimless dummies has a big silver mark on the side of the case, which I am pretty sure is the remains of solder. It probably was taken off one of the toys. Just my thoughts on these.
John, thanks you very much for your comments.
I can also add that the non-subsonic Type 64 load is also fired by the knife-pistol QSB91 (Vo listed as 300-320 m/s).
Picture and drawing of the Type 84 round:
Type 64 box with 311 code:
Here is a Type 64 box (cartridges inside are headstamped 11 89):
Sorry for digging up this old thread.
Fede, this box is from 1989 as the hs on the cases is indicating.
Alex, you are right, thanks for the correction; it was a typo since I meant to say 11 89.
Fede, as we are on it.
The “shield” on that yellow box, is that a factory sign, a police emblem or some sort of state symbol?
EOD - at least the top part, down to the second row of two stars, is a state symbol. It appears on the grips of Type 59 Makarov pistols made in China that were NOT made for the PLA. These are the pistols made from 1959 to 1962.
Ones made for the PLA have the wreath-with-star, with “81” in Chinese characters, on the grip.
The grip insignia does not have the gear and other symbols at the bottom of the shield. I don’t know if those symbols carry extra significance, of the insignia was simply simplified for molding into the plastic grips.
John, thanks! So it appears not to be a factory sign.
It appears to be a simplified version of the emblem of the People’s Armed Police, considering that the Type 77 pistol in this caliber has been in service with this force since 1981.
Fede, thanks, that makes sense!
So what is the earliest hs on 7.62x17 and what are the boxes like for those?
In fact there should be 1964 made ones no? Or is the Type 64 here not related to the year of adoption?