7.62 x 39 Load & Case Types


#1

I am working on a list, by country, of all the load & case types with their proper nomenclature. I have started with the following general list of load & case types. This list will NOT include headstamps.

Are they any I have missed?

7.62 X 39
LIST OF LOAD TYPES

BALL (MILITARY POINTED FMJ)
AP (ARMOR PIERCING)
AP/I (ARMOR PIERCING/ INCENDIARY)
AP/I/T (ARMOR PIERCING/INCENDIARY/TRACER)
AP/T (ARMOR PIERCING/TRACER)
BLANK, ROSE CRIMPED
BLANK, ROSE CRIMPED, EXTENDED NECK
BLANK, WOOD BULLET
BLANK, PLASTIC CASE
BLANK, MOVIE
DUMMY, WITH HOLES
DUMMY, FLUTED
DUMMY, PLASTIC CASE
DUMMY, PLASTIC FILLED
DUMMY, RUBBER FILLED
DUMMY, OTHER
EXPLOSIVE/INCENDIARY
GALLERY
GALLERY/TRACER
GRENADE LAUNCHER
INCENDIARY RANGING
INCENDIARY/TRACER
NEW UNPRIMED EMPTY
NEW PRIMED EMPTY
PLASTIC TRAINING, BALL
PLASTIC TRAINING, TRACER
PROOF—ACTION
PROOF—BARREL
REDUCED CHARGE
REFERENCE/CALIBRATION
SHORT RANGE, BALL
SHORT RANGE, TRACER
SUB-CALIBER ADAPTER
SUB-SONIC
TEAR GAS GRENADE LAUNCHER
TRACER
SPORTING, NON-MILITARY POINTED FMJ
SPORTING, SOFT POINT
SPORTING. HOLLOW POINT

7.62 X 39
CASE TYPES

BRASS
BRASS-WASHED STEEL
COPPER-WASHED STEEL
BONDERIZED
PARKERISED
LACQUERED–OLIVE-GREEN
LACQUERED–GRAY-GREEN
LACQUERED–BROWN
LACQUERED–CHOCOLATE BROWN
LACQUERED–GRAY
CHROMED
NICKEL PLATED
PLASTIC, COMPLETE
PLASTIC, METAL HEAD


#2

There are also aluminum-cased examples.


#3

Ron,
How about the US-made extended case blanks? I’d describe them as ‘open nosed’ but either way they definitely didn’t have a rosette crimp.


#4

Jim–Yup, I missed that one. I’ll add “Blank, Other” to cover all the miscellaneous oddball blanks.


#5

I don’t know of APIT and AP-T in this caliber or an Explosive-Incendiary, but I’m no expert.

You could add to the Dummy list:

Dummy with internal spring

Dummy/Inert, sand filled, (machine test or setup use?)

Dummy, plastic body/projectile with steel head

Dummy, metal case with plastic or rubber “projectile”.

or is this covered under “other”?

And, Ball variations:

Ball, Semi-AP. DDR “SKE” or Russian “Enhanced Penetration” types.

Hollow Point for commercial sale using above “EP” projectile. Says “SC-HP” (Steel Core Hollow Point) on the box.

Too specific?

For case types, how about cases reformed from other types?

7.35 Carcano
6.5 MS
.303 British
.220 Swift (?)

Also, cattle killing blanks made from 7.62x39mm cases…

AKMS


#6

Cases:
Copper plated steel (the most common)

Projectiles:
APDS or DS
…and there must be so many more, it is hard to get all together.


#7

EOD–I understand the difference between “Copper-Washed Steel” and “Copper-Plated Steel”, but how can you tell them apart?

Concerning the APDS and DS, who makes them? Also, are the DS military or sporting?

AKMS–I agree that I have never seen APIT and AP-T in this caliber loaded as military loads, but they are available from some US custom loading companies so they are load types that you can encounter.

As for the Explosive-Incendiary, it is listed by Phillippe Regenstreif in his book “Munitions Sovietiques et des Pays de L’est” on page 117 as “Explosive/Incendiary. ZP Model, Made by 31 in 1957, red tip”

I will add most of those dummy types to the list. I do have a question and comment about one of those you list

"Dummy, metal case with plastic or rubber “projectile”.
Are you sure these only have a plastic or rubber bullet? All that I have seen had the entire case, including the primer pocket, filled?

Can you give me more information, possibly a scan, on the two types below. I am not familiar with them.

Ball, Semi-AP. DDR “SKE” or Russian “Enhanced Penetration” types.

Hollow Point for commercial sale using above “EP” projectile. Says “SC-HP” (Steel Core Hollow Point) on the box.

As for the re-formed cases, I guess i would not really consider them case types. What I meant by case types was materials and coatings.


#8

Ron,

suggest a few to add:
LIST OF LOAD TYPES

  • ball, sintered bullet (Bulgaria!)
  • helmet test
  • enhanced precision (DDR: [b]7,62 mm Pr

#9

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]EOD–I understand the difference between “Copper-Washed Steel” and “Copper-Plated Steel”, but how can you tell them apart?

Concerning the APDS and DS, who makes them? Also, are the DS military or sporting?
[/quote]

Ron, It is not complicated.

Copper washed (the copper coating is applied after the case is fully done): the extractor groove is covered with copper as the whole case is.

Copper plated (the metal strip the case extrusion piece is tamped from has rolled on copper from both sides - means the copper is there before it is drawn): the extractor groove is NOT covered with copper since the rim was machined into the case when it was already drawn. The groove usually is laquered then to prevent it from rusting. The case mouth (looking from top at the case) is also unplated because the case got trimmed after it was drawn.

Russia made experimental APDS or DS and Finland did also some testing.


#10

Ron,

The plastic and rubber bulleted dummies have the case filled with the material and this extends out to form the “projectile”. I would differentiate these from “plastic filled” as the Yugo plastic filled uses a regular brass case and copper projectile jacket with a plastic filling. Maybe splitting hairs here, but I consider them seperate types.

The SKE and EP rounds use a normal M-43 projectile, only the core is hardened. It still retains the blunt shape of the mild steel M-43 core.

I’ll see what I can come up with for you on these.

The East Germans used the 7.62x39mm case for “tool” blank cartridges as well.

If you want to add non-military, commercial and “gun show reloads” to the list, then there are Incendiary, Teargas, DS, Ranging Tracer, “Bird Bomb” and probably some others as well… Oh, don’t forget Frangible. I’ve seen some of those out there as well… Both "Gun Show reloads " using .30-06 Frangible projos. and purpose built rounds from manufacturers specializing in this type of projectile…

Also, The Russians advertised an “Enhanced Accuracy” ball load as well…

AKMS


#11

Hans–Thanks for the reply. It is MY ignorance, not yours for any mistakes in the lists. I just took a semi-serious interest in 7.62x39 in the last couple of months and know very little. It is for this reason I am putting together these lists.

You asked:

“Please again excuse my ignorance, but why the difference between
GALLERY
GALLERY/TRACER
and
SHORT RANGE, BALL
SHORT RANGE, TRACER”

I have found both names in the literature. I thought they were probably the same thing, but, since I am so ignorant on the load types, I felt it was best to list both and hope someone like yourself would correct my mistakes. So, which is the preferred nomenclature? I would guess that “Short Range” is more correct.

The same for “BONDERIZED and PARKERISED”. Which do you consider the proper term?

Is what Regenstreif calls the type “ZP” actually just a Type “Z” (Zajigateinaia) (Incendiary/Tracer). Should the Type “Z” be more properly called a Type “ZT” (Zajigateinaia Trassirouiouchtchaia)? What is the Chinese designation.

As for the Ball, sintered bullet (Bulgaria!), I am aware of this bullet, but not sure if it should be listed as a separate load type. If this is listed, then GM and GMCS and CWCS and BWCS should all be listed as separate load types. But, on second thought, perhaps they should ALL be listed. However, are they actually LOAD TYPES or just variations on the Ball load type. What are your thoughts?


#12

AKMS–Thanks for some more listings. I think only bullets that have been designed specifically for the 7.62x39 should be included on the list. For instance in the case of Frangible, if the particular bullet is designed for the 7.62x39, then it should be listed, but the use of the .30-06 Frangible should not. Technically, ANY .30 caliber bullet could be stuffed into a 7.62x39 case.

you say “the SKE and EP rounds use a normal M-43 projectile, only the core is hardened. It still retains the blunt shape of the mild steel M-43 core”. How do you tell them apart?


#13

The Chinese 7.62x39mm Incendiary Tracer is simply a copy of the Soviet load. They called it the “Type 56”, just like all their other 7.62x39mm loads.

The East German “SKE” has a purple tip, but looks like normal ball otherwise.

The Russian “EP” has a purple case mouth seal for ID as far as I know. I’ve never seen one, but this is what I was told… On these, the base of the jacket is NOT rolled over to secure the core like the SKE and normal M-43 ball. The hollow points made out of these projectiles do not look any different than other Russian contemporary HP except that the hollow cavity is shorter and cone-shaped inside. Known headstamps are “711 92” (LS and CWS cases) and “711 93” (LS case). Oddly enough, the CWS round has a red case mouth and primer seal, leading one to beleive that a finished cartridge was simply converted to HP for export to the US. But, this would kill the purple case mouth seal ID theory… In any case, the CWS variation is uncommon.

For reasons you mention about any .30cal. bullet being loaded into a 7.62x39mm case, I do not put too much interest in non-military loads in this caliber. To many possible “variations” to authenticate and sort out.

I beleive that Bonderizing and Parkerizing are the same thing - a phosphate coating. Bonderizing is the European term and Parkerizing is the US one.
Same-same to me unless someone can educate us better on any actual differences…

AKMS


#14

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]about
GALLERY
GALLERY/TRACER
and
SHORT RANGE, BALL
SHORT RANGE, TRACER"

I have found both names in the literature. I thought they were probably the same thing, but, since I am so ignorant on the load types, I felt it was best to list both and hope someone like yourself would correct my mistakes. So, which is the preferred nomenclature? I would guess that “Short Range” is more correct.[/quote]
Ron, I cannot say if there was a difference or not. If there isn’t, both terms will be correct, just having a different “geographical flavour”.

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]about
"BONDERIZED and PARKERISED".[/quote]In technical literature we find both terms. If both do stand for the same as assured in a reply, both will be good.

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]about
Is what Regenstreif calls the type “ZP” actually just a Type “Z” (Zajigateinaia) (Incendiary/Tracer). Should the Type “Z” be more properly called a Type “ZT” (Zajigateinaia Trassirouiouchtchaia)? What is the Chinese designation.[/quote]
My opinion, it is a “Z”. The Chinese name I don’t know (I can only order a beer in Chinese ;-)) but AKMS seems to know.

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]about
As for the Ball, sintered bullet (Bulgaria!), I am aware of this bullet, but not sure if it should be listed as a separate load type. If this is listed, then GM and GMCS and CWCS and BWCS should all be listed as separate load types. But, on second thought, perhaps they should ALL be listed. However, are they actually LOAD TYPES or just variations on the Ball load type. What are your thoughts?[/quote] True, the sinter technology just gives another kind of ball. But if you intend to establish a list you cannot distinguish between both kinds of ball that (may) exist. Being the author it is your decision about how deep into detail you intend to go.


#15

The correct Russian designation is “PZ” (PRESTRELNO ZAZhYGATELNAYA - Observation Incendiary). All other designations are incorrect.

NOTE: Be aware that transcription from Russian to French is different than from Russian into English! So be aware of French wording and that it can’t be used in English.


#16

[quote=“AKMS”]
The Russian “EP” has a purple case mouth seal for ID as far as I know. I’ve never seen one, but this is what I was told… On these, the base of the jacket is NOT rolled over to secure the core like the SKE and normal M-43 ball. The hollow points made out of these projectiles do not look any different than other Russian contemporary HP except that the hollow cavity is shorter and cone-shaped inside. Known headstamps are “711 92” (LS and CWS cases) and “711 93” (LS case). Oddly enough, the CWS round has a red case mouth and primer seal, leading one to beleive that a finished cartridge was simply converted to HP for export to the US. But, this would kill the purple case mouth seal ID theory… In any case, the CWS variation is uncommon.
AKMS[/quote]

The “EP” is no Russin designation. The correct designation in Russia is “PP”.

The HP with military head stamps are regular Russian civilian cartridges sometimes declared as hunting and sporting cartridges. FMJ for rifle cartridges is forbidden in Russia.


#17

Thanks EOD.

The English language Russian ammunition sites by Barnaul, Vympel, and Ulyanovsk if I recall correctly refer to this round as “Enhanced Penetration”.
Maybe not “official” nomenclature, but it’s a term they use.

What does “PP” stand for and is purple the correct ID for this round?

You are saying the CWS cased “711 92” cartridge with “PP” projectile modified to hollow point is a Russian civilian cartridge? Just the act of poking a little hole in the tip of an FMJ makes it OK for Russian Civilians to own?

AKMS


#18

AKMS,

The English designations on Russian sites are no official designations as they are used in Russia in Russian langauge. Usually they are a poor attempt of a translation and these are often more than bad.

The “PP” stands for “POVYShENAYA PROBIVAIMOST”.

No, nothing got modified. Do not confuse civilian cartridges with military ones. The purple CM is definately no marking for a “PP” here. The projectile has no hardened core (just lead). Means HP bullets were loaded on military cases and got a CM with what ever laquer was on hand. No relation to “PP” at all.


#19

Thanks EOD. Can you explain how to identify a true, military issue “PP” cartridge?

Can you explain then what the “711 92” headstamped cartridges with PP projectiles converted to hollow point are? Why does the CWS cased “711 92” have case mouth seal and primer annulus and the “711 92” with LS case does not?

The “711 92” and “711 93” LS cased hollow points with PP projectile are known to have been imported into the US as sporting ammunition, but the CWS cased rounds were not, to my knowledge.

AKMS


#20

AKMS, There is NO conversion! Please read my last posting.
Case mouth seals on civilian cartridges have no significance.

Real “PP” have a purple CM and a FMJ projectile. Besides that the 7.62x39 is likely to be the scarcest of the “PP” types existing and I would be nicely surprised to see one.
I only have the 5.45x39 and 7.62x54R.