7.62 x 54R REMINGTON?


#1

Blackened brass case, GM FMJ bullet, non-magnetic. Headstamp is R E M I N G T O N 9 1 encircling the entire case head. Nickeled primer is seated well below the base. Feels like there is powder.

What is it??

Ray


#2

Should be 16. I’ve always been told that this is a proof load. I notice that all the black cased ones I’ve seen have just 16 while the non black ones have a line on each side -16-.


#3

Hendere

You’re right, it is 16. But not -16-.

Proof load for who? Overseas contract??

Ray


#4

RUSSIA
60,000 LBS PRESSURE according to the box rubber stamp. Have the original crate in the garage.


#5

The date would match the time frame that Remington was making Mosin Nagnats for Russia, but I’ve never heard any details on the cartridges. Mr. deCoux is the first one I’ve heard that has a box (which I would love to see a photo of if you are ever inclined). I’ve seen a ton of these over the years so I know they made a lot of them.


#6

Thanks, Hendere & Pete.

Ray


#7

What just see a box, but not the crate!
Will see if I can find someone to post then when I can find time to photograph them.


#8

Oh wow, I read your post wrong! I would love to see both! I envy you.

For what it’s worth, I weighed a handful of these once and compared them to the regular loads. The blackened ones weighed quite a bit less. I’m guessing some fast burning powder but less of it.


#9

I would guess that they were made to proof the Remington made M91 Mosin Nagant rifles of the same era. The fact that the cartridge is apparently pretty common in the US seems to support that. If they were made to send to Russia you’d think there would be less here.

I too would love to see pictures of the crate and box. Are the boxes the same 20 round 2x10 configuration two piece box that the regular loads were packed in? TIA


#10

Wasn’t there a huge part of rifles and likely ammo held back in 1917 and did not get delivered due to the revolution?

Does anyone know what rifles the US troops in Murmansk and Vladivostok were equiped with at that time? I heard somewhen that they might have also used the M1891 rifles.


#11

Yes, Russia defaulted on the contract with Remington and the one with New England Westinghouse. Of course NEW didn’t make any ammo. The US gov’t bought up the rifles and I would assume the ammo to prevent the companies from going bankrupt. The US forces at Archangel/Murmansk were armed with Mosins and while I’ve never really thought about it before it makes sense that they would have Remington ammo, along with Winchester, USCCo, and Western. One reason for issuing the Mosins to these troops was the hope that if necessary they could find ammunition locally. I don’t know what the troops at Vladivostok were armed with, but I don’t think it was Mosins. Mosins were sent there, but they were to arm the White Russian forces. Japan ended up with most of them apparently as they were the most powerful force in the area and stayed the longest of all the foreign powers. Here’s one of those rifles, a Remington: 7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRareJapanese1918.htm

I still think the Remington proof loads were intended to proof the Remington rifles, not to send to Russia for proofing of domestic rifles. Remington’s contract was for 1.5 million rifles and NEW’s for 1.8 million. That’s a lot of rifles to proof.


#12

7.62x54r, thanks for the details, so my memories are not totally useless.


#13

Don’t know how the proof rounds were packed, but the regular ball rounds were in conventional two piece boxes, and only markings were a date rubber stamped on the top.

At least that is what I recall. I have a box somewhere, but no idea where.


#14

Yes, that’s how the Remington ball is packaged. I wouldn’t call it “conventional” when it comes to 7.62x54r though. ;-)


#15

When the revolution happened in Russia and the orders for rifles were cancelled, large numbers of M-Ns were sent to the UK because they had already been paid for with British credits.

They were held in Britain until late 1918 when they were issued to British troops going to Northern Russia with the Intervention Force. The ammunition issued with these would have been the British made 7.62 x 54mm that had been made to Russian order.

Regards
TonyE


#16

Pictures I have seen with the North-East Russian intervention force show that the American contingent was, likewise, armed primarily with the Mosin-Nagant rifle.


#17

Many, perhaps most, of the rifles Remington had on hand when deliveries to Russia stopped were acquired by the U.S. and mostly used for training. Lots of these were sold in the 1920s by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, along with their ammunition. JG


#18

Here’s a picture of the proof box that Pete asked me to post. Following is his note on it: Measuring about 5.75" wide, all it has is the two purple rubber stamps and is the traditional 20 size, tan 2-piece box with all the bullet tips placed towards the bottom.

For good measure here are a couple of pictures of the same type of box with standard ball cartridges.


A box of Western cartridges. The headstamp is 20, but the label has a Russian acceptance mark on it. Go figure.



#19

Great boxes, in particular the last one!


#20

7.62x54R: doesn’t the Russian lettering “3 L. B” merely identify the contents as 3 line ammunition? I don’t see an acceptance mark if that isn’t it. JG