7.62mm M80A1?


#1

The US Army is developing “green” bullets. The 5.56mm round is named M855A1.

Does anybody know if the 7.62mm version is called M80A1?


#2

M80A1 was assigned to some IVI headstamped rounds from a US DoD contract in the 80’s. I believe they were lead core, but GMCS projectile jackets.


#3

Keith

I thought the Canadian rounds were designated M80E1. Or is the E1 a different cartridge?

Ray


#4

Ray may have me corrected on that. Yes the IVI was E1. I was thinking that the documentation later listed them as A1, but can’t find that now.

I do know that the whole green ammo project was going to use the 5.56 caliber as the test bed and once they found an acceptable solution there, would work their way up the caliber chain. All the recent documentation I’ve seen doesn’t mention anything beyond the 5.56, I’m assuming due to the concurrent problems, but that’s just an assumption.


#5

P.S. Just reviewed all my documentation. It refers to the green M80 only as M80 LFS (Lead Free Slug), similarly to the M855 LFS (which later became the M855A1). Same construction on the M80 LFS as the M855 LFS (M855A1).


#6

At last week’s NDIA meeting, it emerged that the M855A1 is now referred to as the EPR (Enhanced Performance Round). It weighs 56 grains and is fired at a higher MV than the M855, although sight changes are not required. It offers much more consistent soft-target terminal effects and better penetration, as well as being “green”. It is optimised for short-barrelled carbines and produces less flash. It will be in-theatre from mid-June.

Work on the 7.62mm LFS is proceeding. The final configuration has not yet been decided (nor has the designation), but a scaled-up EPR is the favourite.


#7

Don’t know where this info came, but got it written down;
m855HC- hard steel core 62.2gr steel penetrator
m855AL-pen- 56 gr aluminum penetrator
m855PB-pen- 67 gr lead penetrator
m855WC-pen- 78 gr tungsten core penetrator
Is this something that I dreamed of or do they really exsist. Very intrested in finding any loaded example of the m855WC. Is this the same as m995AP tungsten carbide black tip. Asked here before but no one really awnsered. Every single rd I bought at gun shows, etc… who said its a m995 projectile, lied. Been doing cutaways for 2 years and still none! On AR15.com had a military person find some over sea’s. Thats the only story that sounds possible. Please! Anyone. wolf


#8

[quote=“wolfganggross”]Don’t know where this info came, but got it written down;
m855HC- hard steel core 62.2gr steel penetrator
m855AL-pen- 56 gr aluminum penetrator
m855PB-pen- 67 gr lead penetrator
m855WC-pen- 78 gr tungsten core penetrator
Is this something that I dreamed of or do they really exsist. Very intrested in finding any loaded example of the m855WC.[/quote]
You didn’t dream it, but I think they exist only as computer-generated graphics.

See dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Minisi.pdf


#9

[quote=“TonyWilliams”]At last week’s NDIA meeting, it emerged that the M855A1 is now referred to as the EPR (Enhanced Performance Round). It weighs 56 grains and is fired at a higher MV than the M855, although sight changes are not required. It offers much more consistent soft-target terminal effects and better penetration, as well as being “green”. It is optimised for short-barrelled carbines and produces less flash. It will be in-theatre from mid-June.

Work on the 7.62mm LFS is proceeding. The final configuration has not yet been decided (nor has the designation), but a scaled-up EPR is the favourite.[/quote]
Thanks for that info, Tony. Do you know if the weight reduction from 62 to 56 grains is a result of just switching from bismuth to a copper slug, or has the bullet been completely reconfigured?


#10

Sorry, I misread my notes. The 56 grains refers to the M856A1 tracer. The M855A1 is still supposed to provide a higher MV, though.


#11

With regard to the 7.62mm bullet, there appear to be two bullet weights - 130gr (I have an example that actually weighs 125gr) and 149gr.

NATO Dave


#12

[quote=“NATODave”]With regard to the 7.62mm bullet, there appear to be two bullet weights - 130gr (I have an example that actually weighs 125gr) and 149gr.

NATO Dave[/quote]
Yes, that was mentioned at the NDIA presentation. But it was made clear that no decisions had been reached about the final version, they are still looking at various options.


#13

Thanks for reply stan, thought all those Greatful Dead shows were taking a toll on me!


#14

Stan, does that mean that they have switched from bismuth, or were you just speculating?


#15

Tony, my information is that they have switched from bismuth to copper.


#16


#17

Very interesting. Are there any sources of information (or even better, a photo of a sectioned bullet) concerning the definitive M855A1 structure? Unless I missed it (there were lots of things going on at once) none of the presenters at NDIA actually described it in detail, they just described how it performed.


#18

Tony, several weeks ago I was told by one source that the bismuth slug had been replaced by a copper slug. However, tonight another knowledgeable individual describes the current iteration as being “all copper” – which seems to indicate that construction is no longer comprised of jacket, penetrator and slug. (68forums.com/forums/showpost … stcount=77)

But, I have nothing official on the current version, nor have I yet seen a sectional view.


#19

Fascinating, but rather unlikely since the penetration is considerably better than the M855.

Considering it is supposed to be entering service within the next few weeks, it is remarkable how little definitive information has emerged.


#20

I’ve had confirmation from a reliable source that the M855A1 EPR bullet is now all-copper except for the steel penetrator, which still protrudes to form the tip.