7.62mm NATO SLAP Tracer Questions


#1

On the Left is the XM948 SLAP “WCC 8 SLAP 5” and on the Right is the XM959 SLAP Tracer “WCC SLAP”.


Questions I have:

  1. Is the projectile of the XM959 designed for AP performance or is it just a 5.56mm tracer bullet loaded in a sabot to match the trajectory of the XM948?

  2. Any idea of the approx. years of production?

Thanks for any and all info on this (these) items.

Dave


#2

Dave

I have XM959 SLAP Tracers headstamped “WCC 8 SLAP 8” and “WCC 9 SLAP 0”

The bullets looks like normal 5.56mm tracers but I don’t know if they are or not.


#3

The XM959 used a 5.56mm M196 tracer bullet and was designed to provide an aiming aid with no AP capability.

Cartridges I have in my collection are
W C C 8 0 -solid white 6 finger sabot - early Olin production
W C C 8 4 - clear brownish yellow 4 finger sabot
WCC 85 SLAP - clear brownish yellow 4 finger sabot (also pressure test?)
WCC 88 SLAP - clear brownish yellow 4 finger sabot - later design
WCC 90 SLAP - clear brownish yellow 4 finger sabot - later design

Tracer - WCC SLAP - clear brownish yellow 4 finger sabot, red case head
Tracer - WCC 90 SLAP - clear brownish yellow 4 finger sabot - later design

Olin also manufactured a version (7.62mm SK Ptr 10 prick) for the Swedish Army in the late '90’s. The round was for sniper use - “prick” is short for prickskytte or sniper in Swedish. Headstamp is 0 016 0.

NATO Dave


#4

Phil and Dave,

Thanks much for the info. One last thing that comes to mind after all these years… Where was Remington on this project? Did they get into the game with their experience gained durring the commercial “Accelerator” program? One would think that bringing a functional product to commercial market (with all the blooming litigation concerns of the era, etc…) would’ve put them in a great position to offer a saboted product to the military.

Thanks,
Dave E.


#5

On the tracer round, is the casemouth waterproofed or did they use salvaged cases?


#6

If memory serves, the .308 Accelerator was limited/restricted in it’s production, and hasn’t been offered for a while. Their .30-06 and .30-30 versions are still avaiable.

It’s been a while so bear with me…I seem to recall that the production of the .308 Accelerator was problematic due to Winchester’s production of their military SLAP round, and also due to some teensy small-print issues that the ATFE had with the round (The then-Treasury’s broad and capricious “sporting use” clause among them). This is all 2nd-hand gun-nut talk, so if you combined it with $0.50 you could get a cup of coffee.

To the best of my knowledge the SLAP tracer is a standard 5.56 pill; the SLAP component (the only docs I’ve seen were tests of the Swede sniper version) is specially constructed for AP performance.


#7

schneider,

The XM959 Tracer has a red sealant at the case mouth and the fresh looking case annealing would lead me to think it is loaded on virgin brass.

Mwinter,

While very few rules and regulations on firearms and ammunition make any sense to me, what possibly could the logic be behind giving Remington a hard time over the .308 Winchester “Accelerator” loading that wouldn’t apply as well to the .30-06? (or .30-30 for that matter…) Has anyone ever seen anything “official” that documents this issue? Also, I’m confused as to how Winchester’s manufacture of SLAP rounds would have any relationship to Remington’s manufacture of soft point sporting ammunition.

But again, I’ve never seen logic as a driving factor in many Government activities…

Dave


#8

Is there any truth to the rumours that the acceleratior could be used as an “untraceable assassin’s bullet” As the sabot that would be marked with the rifling would disintegrate on leaving the barrel? I suppose the thinking behind that is possible.


#9

Falcon, untraceable depends on if they will find the sabot later on. But this is exactly the reason why such ammo is forbidden in Germany.


#10

I don’t recall anything official, but if BATF did object to the .308 Win load, it may have been for the same reason that caused 7.62x51 AP ammo to be banned, but .30 M2 AP is legal.


#11

Thanks all for the input.

EOD,

Does the German government require samples of fired projectiles from everyone’s firearms? Just trying to figure out the “logic” being applied…

stanc,

7.62 NATO AP is “banned”?!? Is that an actual law or just an edict someone came up with at one time?

Thanks,
Dave


#12

Falcon, the Remington “Accelerator” sabots do not disintegrate when they leave the barrel. I’ve found more than a few on the ground at various firing ranges over the years. All were in very good shape and completely intact. I do wonder if the plastic material retains the rifling marks well enough to be used for identification purposes…

7.62x51mm AP is not “banned” exactly, rather it is considered AP Handgun ammunition, and thus is regulated differently. .30-06 M-2 AP is specificly exempted by name in this same BATFE ruling. As I recall, this was mostly due to the use of this ammunition in government sanctioned marksmanship events. Beleive it or not, many folks say the M-2 AP is more accurate than M-2 ball. Add this to the hundreds of millions of rounds of M-2 AP that were in storage after WWII and you can see why a lot of it was issued for marksmanship training and matches.

AKMS


#13

I don’t recall. I think the info may be available on the web, though, if you’re interested enough to search for it. As AKMS noted, “banned” was imprecise wording.


#14

I don’t want to start a pissing match, but you can color me skeptical as well.

I’d like to see the BATF&E ruling re: 7.62MM NATO AP.

And while it’s true that Cal .30 AP may be more accurate at the longer distances due to the higher BC of the bullet, it is nowhere near a marksmanship or match cartridge. The accuracy standard for AP is twice that of Ball and three times that of Match.

I follow the Cal 30 Match stuff closely and I have never seen AP issued for matches or marksmanship training.

But, I can be convinced otherwise.

Ray


#15

[quote=“RayMeketa”]
And while it’s true that Cal .30 AP may be more accurate at the longer distances due to the higher BC of the bullet, it is nowhere near a marksmanship or match cartridge. The accuracy standard for AP is twice that of Ball and three times that of Match.

I follow the Cal 30 Match stuff closely and I have never seen AP issued for matches or marksmanship training.

But, I can be convinced otherwise.

Ray[/quote]

Ray,

I believe that .30 AP M2 became the standard issue for the Garand during World War 2. Why was this, accuracy, functioning or just to use it up?

gravelbelly


#16

[quote=“DaveE”]Thanks all for the input.
EOD,
Does the German government require samples of fired projectiles from everyone’s firearms? Just trying to figure out the “logic” being applied…
Thanks,
Dave[/quote]

Dave, not yet, but I would not be surprised if the German government’s fascist attitude would gain control over this as well.


#17

EOD,

I think the great state of New York still has such a system in place for new handguns (fired case and projectile filed with the state). After 10 years and $10,000,000 to fund the program, judging its success has been difficult as they, to my knowledge, have yet to prosecute let alone convict any criminal using the gathered information as evidence. With New York not being so well off financially, we’re all hoping another 8 figure investment will yield at least one conviction to make it all worth while…

I’ll have to look into whether or not they allow the submission of a projectile fired with a discarded sabot!

Regarding the laws on AP in general, I’ll defer to the input from folks who have the tolerance for reading and trying to interpret such things. My understanding was that in general, manufacture and sale or importation and sale of all AP (as defined by BATFE) is prohibited unless for government agency use. Possession is OK. I wouldn’t doubt there is a lack of logic applied by the BATFE in their definitions. I try very hard to follow the state regulations that indicate AP is OK as long as you don’t do anything naughty with it. (That’s probably a good idea for most things anybody owns…)

Dave


#18

None of the above. I believe the AP became the cartridge of choice because of it’s greater penetration on the variety of targets that a combat infantryman was likely to encounter plus the increased wounding effect on personnel from the steel core.

JMHO

Ray


#19

Ray, according to the reprint “the m1903 springfield rifle” from the american rifleman and NRA (ASB10320 10m-475 (7th), that the m2 steel core 168 gr. bullet would make the barrel last longer with improve grouping than the tradional 152 gr. flat base M2 bullet. This was tested by frankfort arsn. with 30.06 heavy test barrels(1945). Later the 172 gr of the m72 match BT with hard lead core and stiff jacket was found to give about the same long accuracy life to barrels as the AP did.
For AP info check: 18 USC sec 922 a 17 (1986) can’t import ap ammo
18USC sec 922 a 8 Type 10 or 11ffl can sell
and the 1994 crime bill (9-14-94) Bullets with specific metal wieghts and intended for hand guns
However, you can collect AP but must keep a record of it being bought/sold.
Ever notice any head stamps that is known AP with a date after 1994? wolf


#20
  1. 1986 ATF doc on specific AP ammo…lists “7.62 NATO AP” and “7.62 NATO SLAP” along with descriptors in it’s “initial listing of projectiles”. The doc is listed as “Industry Circular 86-15” and can be viewed at the link below. The new (DOJ) ATF website does not appear to have the nice old “AP list for dummies” I used to use…the old Treasury site had a page also describing how M855 ‘green-tip’ and -.06 M2 AP were not prohibited/regulated, etc. (Apologies for the link if it breaches protocol here, but folks need to know what .gov has listed specifically as verboten or restricted.)

ttb.treas.gov/industry_circu … 86-15.html

  1. If memory serves, the Remington XP100 bolt-action pistol (a short rifle action with a handle/stock attached) was the reason for the .308 inclusion as AP/handgun (not offered in .30-06). It is possible that since the Accelerator could be construed as similar in description to the SLAP listed on the gov site, that Remington elected to discard the product or cease production, a la Winchester’s decision to cease production of the Black Talon due to misinformed public hysteria.

  2. Please stay current…the DOJ etc. can very quickly rule on things with little or no requirement for publicity or oversight (ex. the Destructive Device ruling on the USAS12 and Streetsweeper shotguns…“non-sporting”, even though the ATFs own doc have multiple exemptions for shotguns and shotshells). Fed LE agencies don’t usually get less restrictive, or qualify/overrule older docs.

  3. During the DC sniper incidents, I called the FBIs hotline since I got wind that some of the bullets didn’t have enough rifling to properly trace (turns out that was bad info; acc. to the rather rude agent a trace had already been made)…the people I spoke with oddly had no idea about the existence of commercial ammo that used .223 pills in sabots (Accelerator). It will depend greatly on the individual weapon/barrel/sabot, but the Accelerator sabots do in my experience leave enough rifling to perform some standardized trace measurements. I don’t do a lot of forensic testimony so there are people more qualified to comment.