7.62mm x 39 Carcano!


#1

I’ve had for a while a 6.5mm Carcano round, that had been turned into a blank that wasn’t a Carcano blank. I’ve finally identified it as a Finnish made 7.62mm x 39 blank (Military Rifle & Machine Gun Cartridges by J Huon page 95). I thought it was some sort of harpoon blank.

Why would the Finns have Carcano ammunition and why go to the trouble of turning them into AK 47 blanks ?


#2

It is not from a 6,5 mm but from a 7,35 carcano.
Italy sold 7,35 mm ammo and rifles to finland and then they modified the cases to make 7,62 x 39 mm blank ammo


#3

[quote=“Pivi”]It is not from a 6,5 mm but from a 7,35 carcano.
Italy sold 7,35 mm ammo and rifles to finland and then they modified the cases to make 7,62 x 39 mm blank ammo[/quote]
This was also done with .303 Ammunition (among other calibres), which must have taken alot of work, it hardly seems worthwhile.


#4

[quote=“Falcon”][quote=“Pivi”]It is not from a 6,5 mm but from a 7,35 carcano.
Italy sold 7,35 mm ammo and rifles to finland and then they modified the cases to make 7,62 x 39 mm blank ammo[/quote]
This was also done with .303 Ammunition (among other calibres), which must have taken alot of work, it hardly seems worthwhile.[/quote]

Do you mean that .303’s were made into 7.62mm x 39 blank ?


#5

Back before 7.62x39mm ammunition was common or inexpensive here in the US, people reformed the 7.35 Carcano cartridge to include resizing the projectile (actually swedging it up from .299" to .310"). I had one such cartridge in my collection years ago, but it’s origin is unknown. Either it was made in Finland or here. I also know that Finland made ball, blank and dummy cartridges out of Carcano cases, but the blanks are the most commonly encountered.

I can’t see any point in reforming a .303 into a 7.62x39mm, but I think it could be done. Seems like a huge amount of effort and machining for a blank cartridge. If it was done, I’d love to see an example!

AKMS


#6

[quote=“AKMS”]I can’t see any point in reforming a .303 into a 7.62x39mm, but I think it could be done. Seems like a huge amount of effort and machining for a blank cartridge. If it was done, I’d love to see an example!

AKMS[/quote]

What would they do about the rim? Is there enough meat in the .303 case head to recut the rim and add an extractor groove? Like you said, sounds like waaaay to much work.


#7

Paul

There is more than enough brass in the solid head to cut an extractor groove, but the REAL work will involve swadging the solid head down to .440". I have made a few of the '06 belted cases which also involves swadging down to .440" and I’m here to tell you that it ain’t easy. Requires several special dies, a good stout press and about 15 seperate steps.

I’m not saying that making a 7.62x39 from a 303 can’t be done, or hasn’t been done. Only that someone would have to be very desperate for brass to do it.

Ray


#8

Maybe it would be more economical than it sounds if done to thousands of rounds on automated machinery rather than in a hand-powered press like the '06 Belted Wildcats. Still, it seems more economically viable to dismantle the rounds on industrial machinery, collect the cases, melt the brass down and start again.


#9

[quote=“Armourer”][quote=“Falcon”][quote=“Pivi”]It is not from a 6,5 mm but from a 7,35 carcano.
Italy sold 7,35 mm ammo and rifles to finland and then they modified the cases to make 7,62 x 39 mm blank ammo[/quote]
This was also done with .303 Ammunition (among other calibres), which must have taken alot of work, it hardly seems worthwhile.[/quote]

Do you mean that .303’s were made into 7.62mm x 39 blank ?[/quote]

They made .303 cases into 7.62x39 ball rounds.


#10

Known headstamps?

AKMS


#11

“VPT 43” overstamped by “VPT 71” ona a regular 39mm case with wooden proj.

The Ball rounds were made of 8x57IS if I remember right. I mixed that up, sorry.


#12

Its odd that they would have made 7.62 x 39 from any cases other than 6.5 or 7.35 Carcano, or 6.5m/m Mannlicher Schoenauer (probably no quantity of brass in the latter caliber unless they bought it from Greece). I can’t think of any other round that would not take head (base) resizing. I can’t imagine turningg the base down - perhaps in a blank, but not in a ball round. I don’t know anything about the round collector-wise, but I used to make my own for an SKS from VN when no ammo was available - one round, any headstamp, brought ten bucks. I ruined a lot of Norma 6.5 x 54 cases to make proper loads, but they functioned flawlessly and were very accurate with a 150 grain .303 bullet. The loading manuals of the time had absolutely stupid instructions about making the round from .308 brass and using .308 diameter bullets. Worthless, in my opinion.


#13

John, hard to say why in detail the Fins did that but they are known not to waste anything and reuse and convert almost everything.


#14

My headstamp checklist shows 15 different combinations of this double headstamp, and they all are of the wood-bullet blank type. It appears that this was done in 1971, 1972 and 1974 using cases dating from 1935 to as late as 1971. Was Finland making .303 as late as the 1960’s and 1970’s?

How odd to reform a case made in 1971 into a completely different caliber a year later…

I have always been under the impression that the double headstamp was simply there to identified a reloaded case.

To add to the reformed case issue are known finnish 7.62x39mm cartridges headstamped “LAPUA 8x57 JS” and “VALMET 7x57”, both ball cartridges.

Can any Finns here shed more light on this subject???

AKMS


#15

I think the info should be in Mika Pitk


#16

Too bad I do not have access to this book…

Out of curiosity, I took a .303 British case and ran it through a 7.62x39mm sizing die. It was not very hard to do and the end result suggests that making 7.62x39mm from .303 is possible. With the right automated machinery to resize the .303 brass, trim to length, ream the neck, turn off the rim and cut an extractor groove, I think it would be possible to make a production run with some sort of economy…

If anyone is interested, I can post a pic of the “.303x39mm” result of my experiment.

AKMS


#17

I would like to see it, please post it.


#18

And if you also cut it in half we all could see what actually happened, thank you!


#19

Keep in mind that the Finns might have turned tha base flanks down before resizing the cases. So the experiment here may not be 100% the same.


#20

I doubt if you could turn the base down without seriously weakening the sold head. The 303 has a nominal base of .460" while the Soviet is .443". I would think that the entire solid head would have to be swaged down and then the rim removed.

JMHO

Ray