7.62x25 Russian Tokarev or 7.63x25 Mauser (30 Mauser)?

Alex

So what is the difference between washed and clad and why is one more technically correct? They both describe the electroplating effect don’t they?

I would like to know so I can use the proper term in my catalogs, and here, and I, like Jon, have always heard the term washed being used for copper plating.

THANKS

Jon,

Thank you for your response to my questions. Very interesting topic.

Regarding the technical differences between plating/washing and cladding, in my simple mind I look at the former as a thermal (as in dipped in molten material) or electro-chemical process to apply a very thin layer of material to a different parent material. Cladding is a mechanical process used to bond two materials together where thicknesses can be as desired (to a reasonable extent). Handy examples in the U.S.A. are found in current coinage where cents are zinc disks plated with a very thin layer of pure copper and dimes and quarters are a clad product where two outer layers of cupro-nickel alloy are mechanically bonded to an inner layer of pure copper. In the early years of this process, to make sheets from which blanks for coins are punched, explosives were used to provide the compressive energy.

Dave

Ditto. I have always understood the washing/plating process to be an electric or chemical process, and cladding to be a more mechanical system with a thicker coating.

Thank you gentlemen, good to learn & this is the place!

Copper Washed/Copper Clad:;;My bad…the manner of manufacturing the Russian (and Chinese cases is done at the Sheet Rolling Mill…the outer and inner copper “layer” is compression rolled onto the thin steel, such that the Copper bonds to the steel. It (“Bi-metal”) is then Punched and drawn into Cases. The Method uses the natural lubricant quality of the copper (in Steel dies)…if it was Steel on steel, there would be more wear and possibility of “seizing” ( same metals) The Only places where the steel is exposed is the edge of the Mouth of the case, and the extractor groove…hence the Laquering in these locations.

Germany did “electroplate” shells in the 1930s (Galvaniziert) using both Pure Copper and “Brass”; The “Eiserne Hulse” of WW I was electrolytic copper of Very Low carbon steel–"Iron"
The Later Nazi era cases were a Higher Carbon content (still mild but were called “Stahl” (Steel )

The Czech and some other Steel cases (Grey) are done by the Bonderising Process ( like Parkerising),leaving an Iron Phosphate surface etched, so that it holds Lubricant whilst Drawing. They are then “Hot dipped” as a finished cartridge, into special Lacquer (* saw the Machine at S&B, 1993). The Czechs inherited the Bonderising Process from Nazi Germany, who in turn filched the Patents from the French (Patented in the early 1920s); The French-made Bonderised cases during WW II (under Nazi control) and then took it up for a great part of their 1950s and 60s manufacture of all calibres ( .30 cal.;7,9mm; 7,65L Pistol; 9mm, etc.etc)

Doc AV
Interesting Thread.

Doc AV

[quote=“DocAV”]Copper Washed/Copper Clad:;;My bad…the manner of manufacturing the Russian (and Chinese cases is done at the Sheet Rolling Mill…the outer and inner copper “layer” is compression rolled onto the thin steel, such that the Copper bonds to the steel. It (“Bi-metal”) is then Punched and drawn into Cases. The Method uses the natural lubricant quality of the copper (in Steel dies)…if it was Steel on steel, there would be more wear and possibility of “seizing” ( same metals) The Only places where the steel is exposed is the edge of the Mouth of the case, and the extractor groove…hence the Laquering in these locations.

Germany did “electroplate” shells in the 1930s (Galvaniziert) using both Pure Copper and “Brass”; The “Eiserne Hulse” of WW I was electrolytic copper of Very Low carbon steel–"Iron"
The Later Nazi era cases were a Higher Carbon content (still mild but were called “Stahl” (Steel )

The Czech and some other Steel cases (Grey) are done by the Bonderising Process ( like Parkerising),leaving an Iron Phosphate surface etched, so that it holds Lubricant whilst Drawing. They are then “Hot dipped” as a finished cartridge, into special Lacquer (* saw the Machine at S&B, 1993). The Czechs inherited the Bonderising Process from Nazi Germany, who in turn filched the Patents from the French (Patented in the early 1920s); The French-made Bonderised cases during WW II (under Nazi control) and then took it up for a great part of their 1950s and 60s manufacture of all calibres ( .30 cal.;7,9mm; 7,65L Pistol; 9mm, etc.etc)

Doc AV
Interesting Thread.

Doc AV[/quote]
Doc, sounds like a good book should be in the making, thank you for all the info.
In short, I have always been told 7.62x25 Russian is loaded to higher pressures then the 7.63 Mauser, and you should not use the 7.62x25 Russian in a Mauser Broomstick. Do you agree ?
Thank you
Dave Call

You can actually find a number of Tokarev pressure/velocity comparisons on-line. Other than a few cases; S&B/Win., Czech M48, and a couple of aftermarket loads, factory 7.63 and 7.62 Tokarev have been historically similar and basically interchangeable. Any ammo fired in an old, damaged, and ill maintained Chinese C96 or Bolo could cause problems.

Thanks for all the input!