7.62x25 yellow tip


#1

As mentioned in another thread here the promised details for the 7.62x25 TT with yellow tip boat tail projectile. I made this an own thread so it does not drown in the other one which has a different subject. Sorry for the delay, my mind not much into ammo recently.

Brass case with hs: 38 * 50 *

Here the projectile:
Length: 16.2 mm
Weight: 5.51 gram


#2

That projectile weight is 85gr to those thinking in terms of grains.


#3

I think I once x-ray’d mine, or perhaps there’s an x-ray of the bullet in Regenstreif’s book. In either case, I think it shows a simple steel-cored ball round.


#4

I guess the next question is how much of Russian 7.62 x 25 mm ammunition made c. 1948-1951 was “simple, steel-cored ball rounds. For the record, the projectile of Russian 7.62 x 25 ordinary ball ammunition, contemporary to the yellow-tip round, nominally weighs the same as that of that with the yellow tip, approximately 85 grains (two weighed specimens from different factories weighed 85.1 grains and 86.7 grains respectively). However, the bullet length of an ordinary ball round, which is not boat-tailed, is 13.85 mm (0.5455”) in length, quite a bit shorter than that with the yellow tip. I have to assume that the core of the standard bullet was lead, or at least with a lead sheath.

Am I correct in remembering that Russian 7.62 x 54R rifle ammunition with a steel-core bullet is also marked with a yellow tip? Or was that “heavy ball” that was so-marked.

Interesting bullet in that yellow-tipped round. If I had a dupe, I would have it sectioned


#5

Yellow tip on rifle ammunition is heavy ball (D) for machine guns use.

The light rifle bullets with unhardened steel core (LPS) originally had aluminium color tips and later were unmarked.


#6

Peelen - Thank you. The minute I type the first part of that “question” I felt that I was reversing the color codes in my head. That’s why I hedged my comments. I was right, in that I was wrong, if that makes any sense!


#7

If the yellow tip would be just a bit longer on that TT I would go for a HPT load. So it seems only to be the best guess for the moment.


#8

EOD - I thought of that myself. I know the inert blue-tip rounds we have seen from exhibitions (in my case, only 9 x 18 mm), representing proof loads, evidently only represent commercial proving procedures, despite at least one having a purely military headstamp.

When you pulled that bullet, did you weigh the powder charge. I know it won’t tell us much, as the three Russian Tokarev rounds I just pulled apart to check standard bullets for weight and length and shape all had similar, but different powder in them. It seems these days, powders are more consistent in Russia. I know that a lot of different makes of Makarov ammunition are loaded with P-125 powder.

Still, if I knew the powder charge of the yellow tip round, I would pull apart a few more Tokarevs and weigh their charges, even though again, it wouldn’t prove much without knowing the exact powders used. Unfortunately, I did not think to save the charges from those already pulled.

The other question is the steel-core, longer, boat-tailed bullet. Since it is the same weight as the standard flat base, lead-core (?) bullet, the only way it, of itself, would boast pressures is through more protrusion into the powder cavity, reducing burning space. I am not sure it would be enough to raise pressures to proof-load levels. Along the same question, had they made the longer bullet with a lead core, it would weigh more and that would be a second means to boast pressures - however, they did not, so…?

Just some idle observations.


#9

John, I just have the projectile and the case. So I can’t say anything about the propellant.

The odd thing is that the much later 5.45x39 barrel proof “VD” with a long yellow tip also has a different projectile design (no boat tail) and a different steel core.
There nobody has an explanation as for why it was made this way.

On the TT I guess we need to wait until documentation will show up or significant packing material that will allow for an ID.


#10

Maybe something to help my photos?


#11

Very nice pictures, thank you! Is that case original to the yellow-tip bullet cartridge?


#12

Yes. Bullet from this case.


#13

I forget where I got the information, Russ Cornell maybe, but I thought yellow tip Soviet 7.62x25mm was “Helmet Test”…

AKMS


#14

Well, my first try at a replywould not post for some reason. I will try once more. Helmet test loads from Russian have a tip color that seems to run from about khaki to olive drab in tone. Olive green would be an o.k. description, too, I suppose. I have not heard before of the 1950 round in question being a helmet test round, but I guess that could be another possibility. I have heard or read somewhere the tip color of HT round described as “mustard yellow” which would fit this round.

The headstamp inertammo shows in his fine pictures is the only headstamp found in the 7.62 x 25 mm having this yellow tip, to the best of my knowledge.


#15

Inert, thank you for that info.
John, Inert’s 38 * 50 * yellow tip is actually new and not previously documented. The two previously known examples are headstamped 539 > 50 < and 539 > A <.


#16

[quote=“jonnyc”]Inert, thank you for that info.
John, Inert’s 38 * 50 * yellow tip is actually new and not previously documented.[/quote]

I mentioned it above…


#17

Alex, you are right, I am sorry. I didn’t notice the h/s you mentioned in that post.
Inertammo, I am sorry, but you must give your prize-winnings to Alex. ;)