7.62x39 Clip Markings


#1

Please help put a manufacturers name to these 7.62x39 clips:

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


#2

1.PRChina, Factory 31
2 Ditto
3.Ditto
4. PRC Factory 321 (could be a subplant of either 21 or 31)
5.PRC factory 351
6.Soviet Union factory 386
7.Unknown
8. Symbolic "“316” a PRC (Rifle) factory
9. RPR 21 (Romania) or Factory 21–Hungary
10 “3TK” (Cyrillic, for Teknici Zavod Kragujevac- Yugoslavia)

Note, in the general coding of PRC Military factories, codes ending in “1” refer to Ammunition factories, codes ending in “6” to Small Arms factories, and those ending in “4” to other equipment such as Cartridge webbing, equipment of cloth or canvase, etc. There are some "export " variations, such as “964” and “946” on export ammuniton;
The Chinese also tend to add confusion by having up to 6 digit factory codes, and multiple codes for the same factory. (ie, 6201, and 212121).

Very few European factory codes can be confused with the Chinese, but the case of “21” which is used by both Romania and Hungary is a case in point.
Soviet codes however, are quite arbitrary, being part of an entire “Military code system” using numbers in a seemingly disordered manner, to apply to all sorts of military products.

Some nations, of course, use a letter system, which sometimes, are quite identifyable , as is the case of Kragujevac (in what is nowadays again, Serbia) used the Teknici Zavod designation way back in the 1930s and before.
Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics


#3

#6 I have listed as Chinese here
#7 should be also Chinese


#4

“21” can also be Polish. It IS a confusing code.


#5
  1. I too have 386 as Soviet - my reference shows them also associated with grenades which is a bit of an odd production combination but not outlandish

  2. symbolic chinese - no question. however this is surely 613 if an inverted triangle code and if a standard triangle code it will be *19 surely and not a 3 as it will be backwards? or is the image I’m looking at transposed or am I just losing my marbles after a very long week at work?

Interesting the variety of fonts and styles used by the same factory
Thanks for the post

Nematoad


#6

Every Chinese triangle symbol I’ve seen has been point-up. I would list #8 as 619.


#7

I agree Ive never seen an inverted triangle code but there is always a first and I have seen some you could read inverted and make some sense.
These can be very difficult to interpret when only a partial like this - The first digit could possibly be one of the elongated 2s but I would guess a 6, making it 619.

There was a good listing of weapon triangular codes compiled by Howie Bearse from the many SKS variants imported into the US. Some really need a bit of lateral thinking to translate them at first glance.
The link is here: simonov.net/images/howie/symbolsBIG.jpg

At a risk of wandering off topic are there any other good listings of these triangular codes which although more of weapons thing than ammunition all add to lifes rich tapestry?

Thanks
nematoad


#8

I was on a website once that concentrated on the SKS rifle. There was a section on maker codes, many of which were Chinese triangle codes.


#9
  • @ Fernando: The mark from Photo #9 is not Romanian, it may be Hungarian or Polish. From the 16 months spent in Romanian Army [in mid-1970s] I do remember that each 10-rds clip for the 7.62X39 ammo had NO markings. The service 7.62X39 ammo that was issued to us, was loaded on 10-rds steel clips and we used to get 6 full loaded clips which we had to load into two 30-rds detachable curved box magazines for the Romanian made 7.62mm “AKM” [officially named “PM-63”]. Each day at the end of the service time, we had to unload the two 30-rds magazines and to load the 7.62X39 cartridges on six 10-rds steel clips which never had markings on them. Liviu 04/20/07 P.S. The 7.62X39 ammo we used in mid-1970s had green lacquered steel cases and was headstamped “22” [Romanian State ammo plant] over a two digit date [usually “67”, “68” or “69”].

#10

I would have to say that the “3TK” marked clip is Soviet, not Yugo. I say this because clips marked this way came with the Soviet SKS rifle I purchased many years ago and have no reason to beleive that Yugo clips would have been packed in with it.

AKMS


#11

I agree with AKMS completely. The last stripper clip pictured is Russian. They DID come in with the Russian SKS Carbines, of which we sold dozens. I went thru all the clips we got for markings, and found many, many of these exact ones, as well as variants. I did it for a friend. It was no problem, as we simply replaced them with new Chinese clips to go with the SKSs that we sold - we had several full cases of “31” SKS stripper clips in stock. He simply paid us the cheap price we had on the Chinese clips.


#12

Thank you everyone! I didn’t think this would be so confusing!

@Liviu: The number 9, marked 21, came with 324 94 headstamped cartridges. Lacquered steel cases with red primers, and red mouth annulus.


#13
  • @ Fernando: What do you mean by “the 21 marked clip came with 324 94 headstamped cartridges”??? Do you have the original marked Romanian box[es]??? — The Romanian made 7.62X39 cartridges [with green lacquered steel cases and red sealant fully applied on the primer and case mouth] headstamped “324” over “94” may have a “SP” or a regular bullet. The ammo was packed from the factory in 20-rds thin cardboard boxes [size: 60 X 48mm, 44mm tall] stamped on top “MADE IN ROMANIA” over “7.62X39mm/20 rds.” [both markings inside of a frame]. A wooden ammo crate contains 2 green painted tins and both contain the 20-rds cardboard boxes mentioned above. I’m telling you all this because I’ve NEVER seen Romanian made 7.62X39 ammo packed on 10-rds steel clips. — Like I mentioned in my previous post, the Romanian made 10-rds steel clips [for the 7.62X39 ammo] are not marked. NOTE: The Romanian State factory code “21” was marked on a headstamp for the last time in 1980 [a headstamp for the 12.7X108 round]. This headstamp photo, a picture of the 20-rds Romanian cardboard box and the 7.62X39 hedstamp “324” over “94” can be seen at my article named “Romanian Headstamps Since the Beginning of World War Two” which was printed on pages 6,7,8 and 9 from the IAA Journal Issue #433, Sep/Oct 2003. Liviu 04/21/07

#14

Liviu, I did not imply anything with my reply, but telling you how I found it. No means of discreditting you!


#15
  • @ Fernando: There is NO problem! We all here share information and learn from each other. Liviu 04/21/07