7.62x39 Grenade cartridge vs. blanks


#1

How can I tell a 7.62x39 grenade launching cartridge from a blank?

I had some Romanian grenade cartridges (I think?) with the headstamp “SADU” “7.62” “07” that I successfully used to launch practice grenades down range from the end of a Yugoslavian AKM. It was great fun, although a bit painful, and I would like to purchase some comparable cartridges so I can keep launching. The SADU cartridges were quite powerful and launched the practice grenade down to the 300 yd. distance with just a slight elevation to the rifle. Am I correct in assuming that these were grenade cartridges?
[color=#FF0000]
USING THE WRONG TYPE OF CARTRIDGE/GRENADE/RIFLE COMBINATION WHILE ATTEMPTING TO LAUNCH PRACTICE GRENADES CAN RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH!![/color]


#2

When you make the statement that using the unknown grenade blanks was
"painful" do you mean that the rifle was being held at your shoulder…OUCH…

Maybe someone else will chime in but all of the info that I have seen regarding launching rifle grenades says that the rifle butt should be placed on the ground
and “NOT FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER”…basic law of physics involving action and reaction…

Or in other words… all blanks are not created equal


#3

I’m pretty sure that the grenades are supposed to be fired from the shoulder. The grenade sights seem to work this way, although I’m not an expert on the subject. I’m sure you can imagine the recoil from launching a 2 lb. projectile 300 yds. It’s a bit more than the bolt action 50 BMG rifle that I’ve fired!

In the 7.62x39 caliber, are there differences between grenade launching cartridges and blanks?
I know this is the case with other calibers, and I assume that it’s the same for this caliber, but I have only seen one type of crimped case for the 7.62x39 “blanks.”


#4

Lots of noise blanks get produced for training, saluting, simulating, etc., but relatively few grenade blanks are made or issued. Collectors tend to see many more noise than grenade blanks. There are differences between the two types, but you can often only tell which is which by the packaging or researching an individual country’s marking or production practices.


#5

Is it possible that the SADU blanks that I used were actually noise blanks? I suspect not based on the performance, but these are the only “blanks” that I have ever used for any purpose and I really don’t know how to tell. Would a noise blank send a 2lb grenade 300 yds. down range?

I wish I would have purchased a case of these SADU blanks when I had the chance!!


#6

The Bundeswehr training rifle grenades could be “launched” using the 7.62x51 plastic blanks (Manöverpatrone), but resulting in a much lower velocity and dramatically shorter range. This was of course prohibited, but I have seen a professional NCO doing it.
Firing with the real grenade blanks (Treibpatrone) resulted in a really severe recoil. The rifle was neither fired from the shoulder (broken bones assured) nor rested on the ground (only antitank grenades in the inventory). Using the sling around the left upper arm and across the chest, the rifle was pressed to the right side of the body, making sure the cap of the shoulder stock had no obstacle in its way. Also the grip was not used, because the thumb would have been severely mauled. The firing finger was poked in the trigger guard and the rest of your right hand did not touch the rifle.
From time to time a sling ruptured during a shot. This should give a raw impression of the recoil.


#7

Those Romanian cartridges made by Sadu are indeed noise blanks (manevra).


#8

If you were getting 300 yard range with noise blanks, I would continue using them for fun.
I recently got an Israeli grenade launcher for my Israeli Mauser and it came with 2 practice grenades. I’ll give them a go with some noise blanks, much easier to find.


#9

Really!? I’m surprised that they are so powerful.

I shot one of the Israeli practice grenades that is patterned after the BT/AT-44 dual-purpose rifle grenade, and with the rifle shouldered and level to the ground, the grenade went just past 100 yds. before hitting the ground. Impressive!

After what I’ve been reading on some other posts on this forum, now I’m wondering if it is safe using these noise blanks for launching grenades. It has worked fine so far, but the last thing I want to do is cause pressures that are not safe for the firearm. I feel a little embarrased that I didn’t research the subject of launching grenades beforehand. I did know that there were noise blanks and grenade cartridges, but I just assumed (incorrectly) that the noise blanks would simply launch the grenade a shorter distance. It didn’t even cross my mind that the burn rate of the powder could be quite different between the two types.

Here is the SADU cartridge that I’ve used for launching grenades. It has a dark reddish color tip (sealant?)


Does anyone have a photo of a grenade blank in 7.62x39?


#10

Yes, it is a noise blank, the problem is that it was packed in plain boxes and its identification can only be found on the outside inscriptions of the wooden crate. It seems that these were only imported into the States during 2008.


#11

Thanks, Fede! Is it safe to use these cartridges for firing grenades? Obviously it worked, but I don’t want to push my luck!

I read that for older 30.06 “noise” blanks that were not crimped, the powder burned at a much higher rate than a grenade blank and could be dangerous for launching grenades. Is that the case with 7.62x39 blanks?


#12

Gentlemen and ADMINS here. This thread is even more dangerous than talking about realoading data and should be treated equally (at least).

We are speaking here about the assumed correct use of all sort of cartridges, with all sort of rifle grenades and weapons.
This is highly dangerous and should not be done in general nor I personally think should be discussed here on the forum!

Never use just anything that looks like a blank and combine with a rifle grenade that is on hand and use both in just any weapon which just happens to be in the correct caliber!!!

Propelling cartridges are very fine tuned to the grenades they are supposed to be used with and all this in relation to the weapon.

The fact that the grenade is launched and is flying far (and is kicking hard) is just an indication of a high gas pressure and a resulting fast recoiling breech which may damage the backside of the breech or the receiver (or both) and/or the shooter.

I serisously urge everybody to never fire anything that did not come in the same box (grenade and propelling cartridge) and that was not meant for the particular gun you are going to use!

I know there will be a doozen people saying they did such in the past and all was OK but anybody doing this is taking chances. If one likes that fine but never state on such things in the public or even recommend it to somebody else (as done above)!

By the way, Romania has no rifle grenades in the inventory so they also have no grenade propelling cartridges. And if not worse enough there is one recent lot of 7.62x54R blanks which can not even be fired from the PKM machine gun since they develop too much pressure and need modified BFAs (drilled to larger vent diameter). Draw your own conclusions!


#13

Thanks for the comments EOD.

There is certainly more to launching grenades than what many people think and you bring up some very good points.

The bolt carrier was not recoiling with the particular firearm that I used as it has a grenade sight attached to a valve that shuts off the gas to the piston so that all the pressure goes out the muzzle for launching the grenade. There certainly could be some concern with the pressure in the barrel, though, and with that I think I will refrain from using these blanks for launching grenades in the future.

Thanks for all of the great information and I hope others will read this thread and learn that the grenade launching process is not as simple as it seems and there are many factors to consider.

[b]
Let’s get this back on a more appropriate topic of how to tell the difference between true grenade launching cartridges and noise blanks. Please, no more discussion about using these cartridges. I’ll go back to my original post and remove the second question regarding the use of these. Sorry!

Does anyone have any photos of true grenade launching 7.62x39 cartridges?[/b]


#14

[quote="jjjxlr8"Does anyone have any photos of true grenade launching 7.62x39 cartridges?[/b][/quote]

If its of any help to you I can post photographs of blanks & grenade cartridges for Yugoslavia, East Germany and Hungary.


#15

Jim, that would be fantastic! I’m especially interested in the Yugoslavian and East German. Thanks in advance!


#16

Top row, left to right:
Frankfort Arsenal, type4
PRC 31/86
Bulgaria 10/04
DDR 05/78
DDR 05/87
Yugo NNY/1984
Bottom row:
Yugo NNY/1985
Hungary 21/83
Ulyanovsk, Russia Fed
Barnaul, Russia Fed
Egypt ARE/27/77
Finland


#17

From what I see there is only one propellant cartridge in the pictures: 05/78. Thank you, Wolfgang, I never attempted to see what is inside mine.
Hans


#18

Very nice collection wolganggross! Thank you for sharing. Nicely done sections.

Hans, why do you think (know?) only one of these is a propellant cartridge? Combination of Country of origin, tip color, and propellant type?


#19

Apologies for the delay…here’s a Yugoslavian blank

and then a Yugoslavian grenade cartridge

an East German blank

and an East German grenade cartridge


#20

Very nice, Jim! Thank you.