7.62x39 Identification - Sudan


#1

Hi,
i am new on the forum.
somebody can identify this 7.62x39 ball.
What the code mean ?
thanks


#2

Gab–Welcome to the IAA Forum. Your 7.62x39 with the “SU” headstamp is from a unknown factory in the Sudan.


#3

These are Sudanese cartridges made in 2001.


#4

What they use for sealing primers?


#5

For the primer sealing :
I think it’s dirt because i have another sample with nothing between primer and case…
Maybe it’s not dirt but i can’t know for moment.

Also, bullet have a poor quality.

Is it a rare ammo ?

What mean the other code : “33 or 39” and " 1 or I " ?
It s difficult to see stamps have poor quality.

Thanks


#6

Gab-the “1” is the month (January). The “39” is short for “7.62x39”. While I do not have a Sudan 7.62x54, I think the headstamp would have “54” in place of “39”


#7

Hi! Yes, it is Sudanese-produced ammunition with the SU standing for Sudan, the ‘39’ as the short for the caliber (there are also rounds with ‘54’ of calibre 7.62x54), and the ‘01’ for 2001. With apologies to Ron, I do not think that the ‘1’ stands for the month because no-one, to my knowledge, ever came anything else but the ‘1’ - my guess is that it is either a company mark or a lot code (but again, I would expect then to also find ‘2’, ‘3’ etc). As a short background, ammunition with the markings you have is often found in conflict zones in Sahel zone in Africa (e.g. Sudan, obviously, Ivory Coast etc).

May I ask where you got your round from? If not from the region I mentioned, this is the first time I hear anyone finding it elsewhere.


#8

Sanders–You may be correct. I just reviewed all the Sudan headstamps I know of. I have 6 different cartridges. 3 of them have Arabic headstamps for 1979 and 1980. 2 others are 2001 and they all have “1”. The only one I have without the “1” is headstamped “SUD 51 97”. This is New Unprimed Empty brass case. So, I would guess that “1” is short for Factory 51.


#9

Ron, is the SUD 51 97 maybe on a 7,62x51?

Hans


#10

I agree with sanders that the 1 is probably a lot number. I have pictures of sudan 7.62x39mm headstamps showing lots(?) 2 and 3.


#11

Hans–No, that SUD 51 97 was sent to me as a 7.62x39. That headtamp along with a bunch of other headstamps images came from a normally reliable source. But, I’l try to double check it.

Russ–Hope your feeling a lot better. Could you send me the headstamp images for Lots(?) 2 & 3?


#12

Hi Russ! Sorry, I should have specified that no-one to my knowledge, has ever seen the 2001 Sudan cartridges with something other than the 1 – this could of course mean that Sudan only produced one lot in 2001 but given their quantities and wide dispersion I would find this surprising. Having said this, you are right, there are Sudanese rounds from 2009 andmainly 2010 with 1, 2, and 3. But I still remain intrigued because the ones with 1 are by far, and I mean very far, the most dominant ones with only few with 2 and practically only a handful with 3 ever recorded – if these were lot numbers I would probably expect a more even distribution. Any thoughts on this?


#13

Here is one of the Human Security Baseline Assessment (HSBA) PDF’s, this one covers headstamps on various ammunition calibers, all attributed to Sudan. Accuracy???

I could not find it listed here on the forum so here it is: smallarmssurveysudan.org/fil … nition.pdf


#14

From the very few data I have, there is (was?) a Sudanese ammo factory known as “Ammunition Government Factory” in Khartoum (capital town) , and a supposed second one in Omdurman. They made 9x19 and 7,63x39 calibres. and also .303" british and 7,62x51 NATO.

These facilities had been originally set down by I.C.I. (Kynoch) in the 50-60ies, before the Revolution…

Any other details welcome…

Phil.


#15

The factory is “MIC”:

Alshaggara Ammunition Plant “Military Industry Corporation”, Sudan, founded in 1960.

mic.sd


#16

EOD, MIC (Military Industries Corporation at Riyadh) is also the code used on a recent Saudi purchase of 9x19mm from S&B.

I have never seen a 9x19mm round with a Sudanese headstamp. Does anyone have a photo???

Cheers,
Lew


#17

Lew, the MIC must be coincidence I think as the Sudanese headstamps do not feature the “MIC”.

So far no Sudanese made 9x19 have shown up amongst those people who do tracing on that continent.


#18

EOD,
The following headstamp was originally identified as Sudanese, but later the consensus was that it was just early Egyptian. I understand the character at the top was originally translated as Sudan, but later as Shoubra or Shobra, the Egyptian factory. The date of 1954 would match the reported initiation of production in Egypt, but also is consistent with the dates for the Kynoch established factories in Sudan that Phil mentions above.

Cheers,
Lew


#19

Lew, my knowledge of Arab is basically non existing (except for figures) and in relation to 7.62x39 I happened to look into African manufacturers and in particular Sudan (MIC).
I have to admit that neither 9x19 nor Egyptian and Arab stuff is my specialty. Means I am useless here - sorry.


#20

Lew, س for Shoubra does not make any sense!
We need two, in German even three letters to write “sh”, in Arab it is only one.
س - S
ش - Sh
That does however not exclude it was made at Shoubra. Maybe for Sudan, because the س is known as identifier for Sudanese SAA.

Hans