7.62x39 Queries

I would like to confirm the ID on these 4 cartridges 7.62x39.

Blank with no headstamp. Red wad below 6 crimps. 38.4mm long.
The label copy looks like a Spanish grenade blank. Who made it?

Czech long black tip. Is this a proof load?

Yugoslav Proof round. Muncion site shows red tip and red primer only.
Is mine a different type?

Who made this steel case 6 lobe blank? Only shows a date.

Blank%20a%20crimp

Re CZ bxn - it’s a proof load to test automatic function of SA 58 (basically); there’s another one with longer/heavier bullet to test the chamber pressure/locking mechanism.
We have pulled out thousands of these black tip 7.62x39 and with the slightly reduced powder charge assembled them back for normal shooting.

Thanks Trabi Fun.
The word did not look like proof.
I removed the reference to a red base, no tip proof as it was Lapua, not nny. Ron.

The black tip Czech proof load is a reduced power round? A “functioning proof” instead of a high pressure proof?

No, Tomas said they reduced the load in order to shoot it away in normal guns as the HPTs were surplus and un-sellable in this state.

Hi Ron, this blank was made by F. Engels Machine Building Plant, Kazanlak, Bulgaria. The case was manufactured by Prvi Partizan, Uzice, Yugoslavia.

Regards,

Fede

Thank you. I misread the description. :(

Fede, is there any background info about this?

Alex, they are packed in plain boxes but bundles contain a Bulgarian label indicating the manufacturer (10).

Regards,

Fede

Fede, do images exist? I have never seen teh box or labels for these (unfortunately).

I understand the PPU connection is concluded from the hs font?

Yes, if you compare this headstamp to PPU examples the manufacturer is the same. Below you can see a picture of the label found in 280 rd. bundles.

606-85%2010

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Fede, very interesting! I have never seen such a label. Excellent!

The big question is why would Arsenal buy cases from PPU when they were making these themselfes?

I assume the reason was that in the 80’s they didn’t have a production line set up for drawing extended blank cases and it was cheaper or easier to purchase new unprimed cases abroad. They done the same with cases headstamped just “88” at 6 o’clock, that in this case look like Veszprém products.

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Interesting thought!
Yes, I am aware of the “88”.

I know a “10 89” extended blank and a 1960 blank (39mm case) that has a wooden projectile.

Are any other (earlier or later) extended blanks known from Bulgaria with hs 10 + year ?

Alex, yes there are. In my drawers you saw following years on extended copper plated plated cases:

62, 63, 65 with red case crimp seal
65 with blue primer annulus and wax case crimp seal
All above actually loaded in DDR btw.

66, 70 with blue case crimp seal
89, 91 with red crimp seal

Hans

Re Czech bxn 83…I have the exact same YOM - it’s loaded with slightly higher powder charge of standard double base propellant (equal to current Lovex D063) used in Czechoslovakia after 1976 (before this year the loads were done with single base tubular propellant equal to Lovex S053) - will check during weekend what was the “proof load charge” and what we have loaded to be slightly below the CIP max. pressure.
On the other hand the proof load with heavier/longer bullet is loaded usually with faster single base S040

Hans, thanks a lot! I should have paid much more attention back then!!!

Means BG had the capacity and machinery to produce such cases itself.

Alex, no doubt they had the capacity and machinery to do it, but there are no reported extended blanks dated after 1971 and before 1989. In any case, even if eventually someone find examples from those years, it does not exclude the possibility assumed above.

I agree, history has shown that connections between manufacturers (across borders) are hard to explain and also there are many unknown factors which are influencing the subject.
A nice exception and good to see the details you brought forward, especially the Arsenal label for the “1983” PPU hs.

Ron, do you know the source or have more information about the unheadstamped “grenade blank”?