7.62x39 question


#1

A 7.62x39 headstamped 21 and year 81 the same way up. Which we know is Hungarian. It is unusual in that stenciled on the shank of the case is :- 7x62x39 LEA in black ink. What is LEA? Why the stenciling?


#2

I think that’s a Germany requirement. Could LEA stand for LEADER BRAND?


#3

Jon, not only Germany, it is CIP (Europe) regulation that a cartridge has to have the caliber and the manufacturer or its logo on it.


#4

It is not needed in the Netherlands.


#5

It’s a regulation from [I thought] only Germany that surplus ammunition sold to civilians must have been ‘declared ball’ to avoid the accidental usage of other kinds of (operational) ammunition by civilians. That means the caliber with some kind of proof mark must have been printed on the case when sold to civilians.

I have two Czech 7,62x54R Type 59 ball cartridges that have a similar printing on them: “7,62x54R SM”. They have an aluminium coloured tip that can easily be confused with an API marking by outsiders. The printing on such a cartridge can be very useful to show, for example, controlling police officers or the committee of the shooting club that this ammunition is declared legal for sporting usage.

I don’t know what instantion is responsible for such printing.

Regards,

Thijs.


#6

Oh, ok, then Germany is requiring it to be marked as to CIP standards.
You are lucky then, here in Germany all surplus ammo comes repacked and relabeled with markings on the cases ruining the whole thing for collectors.


#7

So is LEA for Leader Brand?


#8

Thijs, there is no such thing as “ball ammo only” marking in Germany, also no Police visits on shooting ranges.
The legal reasons I explained above. I just wondered that again only Germany is screwing up with it’s rules - I guess it is a “must”.
On the other hand I wonder how it comes that CIP-member countries can bypass the CIP regulations.


#9

I’ve only found out that “SM” is an abbreviation for Chemnitzer Sportwaffen und Munitionsfabrik GmbH, a German company.

A few minutes ago, I’ve sent them an e-mail with some questions about German printing on surplus cartridges and about the “LEA” code. If I get a response, I will post it here of course.


#10

SM answerd very rapidly. The ink stamp is indeed because of the German firearms law. Surplusammunition has to be marked by the importing / selling company. SM indeed stands for Chemnitzer Sportwaffen und Munitionsfabrik and LEA stands for Leader Trading, also from Germany.


#11

I have observed recently the same kind of Hungarian made 7,62x39 (hstp 21 70 and 21 4) with stencilled on the case side :

7,62x39 C JB

A curious point is that this ammo had obviously been reloaded (toolmarks on the bullet, but purple casemouth seal well preserved…).

My correspondant (he is on this Forum, and will recognize his stuff!) was curious to know if this CJB letters could have been in relation to Norinco…

I guess no, but what means CJB ???

Phil.


#12

Philippe, the pic of this cartridge
CJB : China Juan Industries Corp. (Norinco) - Beijing (P


#13

[quote=“EOD”]Oh, ok, then Germany is requiring it to be marked as to CIP standards.
You are lucky then, here in Germany all surplus ammo comes repacked and relabeled with markings on the cases ruining the whole thing for collectors.[/quote]
Can you remove the markings from the rounds with solvent or is that illegal to do? Obviously you don’t have the packaging but you can still collect the individual rounds.


#14

Falcon - I don’t recommend removing the markings. I can’t imagine that a collector could get in trouble doing it, especially if he doesn’t live in Germany. The fact is, they come off very easily.

However, these are officially applied markings and as such, I think they are as collectable as headstamps. I pick these up for my collection when I find them, even if I have the same variation without them, previously acquired. I keep them both and consider them variations.

Of course, to remove them or not would be the choice of the collector who owns them. I am just pointing out a different viewpoint, perhaps, about these markings. Certainly, they hurt no feature of the cartridge by being there, regardless.


#15


#16

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Falcon - I don’t recommend removing the markings. I can’t imagine that a collector could get in trouble doing it, especially if he doesn’t live in Germany. The fact is, they come off very easily.
[/quote]

I know it wouldn’t be a problem removing them if not in Germany, but I wondered if it was illegal to remove them in Germany.