7.62x39 Unknown Types

Below is a photo of two 7.62x39 cartridges.

The first cartridge I have identified as a Chinese made blank. It is a copper washed case and headstamped 31 87. Can anyone confirm this tentative ID?

The second one is weird to me. The headstamp is 05 85 Spreewerke East Germany. The bullet(?) is glossy black with a round nose and magnetic. This cartridge feels lighter than a normal ball round. I wonder if it is type of short range practice round? Any help to ID its type would be appreciated.

Thank you all.

Yes, your first one is a Chinese blank.

The second cartridge is a short-range Übungspatrone (Training Cartridge). You find these also, in a slightly different bullet ogive, in 7.62 x 54R, but they are in cases from other Warsaw Pact Nations, as the DDR seems to have made only one small lot of the Mosin cartridges. They are very rare, that is, the ones made in the DDR, which are found as empty cases only or in ordinary ball rounds, I believe

John Moss.

Just to clarify…the examples in 7.62x54R might be rare, but the 7.62x39 version (as shown above) is very common.

Thank you both John and Jonnyc for the information!