7.62x39 with Sabots


I have just obtained a series of four 7.62x39’s with plastic sabots for 5.56mm bullets. The bullets are GM with a magnetic core. There is no headstamp and the flat brass primers are ring crimped. Each one has a different color sabot, which is the only visible difference between them. The sabots are Clear, Gray, Black and Tan.

A 5th saboted round with a pointed soft point 5.56mm bullet and tan sabot has a “MIDWAY 7.62 x 39” headstamp and a flat nickel primer. Apparently not the same company as the 4 above as the sabot is not seated as deeply.

I have 2 other After Market loads. An Incendiary load with a “MIDWAY 7.62 x 39” headstamp. The bullet appears to be a .303 British Incendiary based on the dark blue tip.

The last one is a Tracer load with a lacquered steel case headstamped “04 67”. Flat brass primer with a purple PA.
The bullet appears to be a .30-06 bullet. The tip is a BRIGHT green, obviously hand dipped.

Anyone have any idea which gunshop made any of these?




RICK–NO CAMERA or SCANNER. Use your imagination. The descriptions are pretty clear.


What say we ALL chip in and get Ron a camera. It’s gotta be worth a sawbuck to see some of Ron’s collection.

And Ron, your description, while VERY clear, is a few “words” shy of a picture. That whole “A picture is worth a thousand words” thing.


SlickRick–Yah, I know. I can do headstamps on my scanner but it does a LOUSY job on profiles. I would gladly accept a late Christmas gift of a camera. Hopefully on Wednesday I will be getting a scanner that will work better on profiles. I am buying it for $25.00 (it is an old one) from a guy that is bring it over then for me to try and see how well it works. He claims he has done 3-dimensional objects on it and they turned out fine. We’ll see.

In the meantime, please send me a Nikon 10 megapixel SLR with an array of lenses.


I was thinkin’ more along these lines:


SlickRick–I’ll take it even if it is PINK. I can always paint it!!!



Most of this saboted prjectiles 7,62x39 are the fact of private experiments by local armourers. I actually wonder in what weapon they could be used…

Many “faked experiments” also exist…

In France, approx. 10 years ago, SFEFMA, a small company working on limited special contracts for the Government experimented with plastic sabots in diverse calibres including 7,63x39 and .50 Bwg. I know well the owner and designer, Serge Ranvier, a former military armorer then a SFM technician. He told me it was just a trial of his own, an a private venture, for a possible sniper rifle development (He had himself built a heavy rifle in .50 calibre, exposed in Eurosatory 94, but stopped soon) The SFEFMA operated in the small suburban city of Longjumeau, south of Paris, and specialised in uncommon ammo of several kinds:

-subsonic ammo, for special services, loaded on surplus yugoslavian 7,92x57 brass, later on .308 Win of Seller Bellot origin. This ones weere delivered to French Special Service in limited quantities, packed in 20 rds flat grey boxes with the only inscription “subsonique”.
-propulsive bulletless electric-primed ctgs for EOD systems like Rocket Wrenches, in .50" Bwg and 20x110, several lots were delivered to the Interior Ministry for demining and bomb defusing squads at the end of 90 ies and 2000-2001.
-variation of 40 mm grenades for Police use, following the so-called Flashball, made by Verney-Caron, a non-lethal weapon used by French Police for riot duties. Experiments were based on aluminum cased grenades, to replace the ordinary black plastic ones, which came from the commercial market.
-and trials with saboted bullets. The sabots were commercial US imports, made in pale blue, red and grey plastic. They were only used for feasibility tests.
All this ammunition were handloaded, and built in small quantities, the most important orders being for the EOD ones.

Details have been published several times in the ECRA bulletin.



PS=the SFEFMA closed last year and his owner is to-day working as an independant commercial agent for several Companies, like ARSENAL, in Bulgaria, always on behalf of the French Defense Ministry.


Here is 2 Finnish xpl versions:


Hammer–I have not seen any of the loads you pictured above. Are they factory experimental loads? Do you have others? For the Master list of 7.62x39 that I am compiling (now at almost 4000 different with about 1000 more to list when I get the time) I need the information on any non-standard loads you know of. Nice pictures like those above are appreciated. I also need to know what type of primer (Flat or Domed, Brass, Copper, Nickeled, etc.) Primer Annulus color, type of primer crimp and headstamp. You can email me the details or post here. Thanks for the help. We will all benefit from the Master List as a checklist of what is out there.


stuka222–Yes, I am aware that most of these things are not major factory experimental’s. They are what we call “Gun Show Specials” here in the U.S. They are made in relatively small numbers by small ammunition makers primarily to sell at local gun shows because they are colorful and “Exotic” looking. But, for the purposes of my Master List of 7.62x39" I need to list and document them since they are out there. I think these saboted rounds described above are made by a company in Arizona, but am not sure. I have many others such as Starburst Incendiary, Tear Gas (Using Israeli 7.62x51 Gray Tip bullets), Tracers in Red, Green, White, etc… I’m just trying to find out exactly who made them.


here’s my Finland drawer…the only legit sabots “I own” in 7.62 x 39…I have a handful of gun show variations

'love color and special purpose !



Pepper–Nice drawer! I see lots of things I would like besides that row of 7.62x39’s. But now, as outlined in my answer to Hammer, I need details of each 7.62x39. Although I see all 4 of the rounds that Hammer pictured, please don’t skip them. Yours might be different dates or headstamps.

Also, please send me details on any other “Gun Show” specials in 7.62x39 that you have or any other Tracers, AP/I, I/T, etc., even if they are “Common” headstamps. They may be a date I have not documented yet.


I have two scanners. One is part of a multifunctional printer/copier/scanner which I use for all documents but will not handle 3D objects, the other is a stand-alone which does 3D objects very well. However, I find a camera more convenient and versatile (trying to scan a group of cartridges while stopping them rolling around the glass scanner surface is a recipe for frustration…)