7.62x51 Brazilian box


#1

I have a question on a Brazilian 7.62 box. Is the box pictured below blanks or Ball?

Joe


#2

Joe, this is ball ammunition, the box for blanks is labeled “Car 7,62 Ft”. Original rounds to this box should be headstamped F R * 7.62 *, and also have an oval nickeled primer with red sealant.


#3

Fede, Thanks as always. I knew you would have the answer. On a curious note, is the ammo any quality, as compared to USGI 7.62 Nato Ball?? I know there was some Brazilian 7.62x51 that was imported a few years back, that was very questionable.

Joe


#4

Joe, I don’t know about the quality of this one, but the problematic ammunition that you mention was made by CBC and refurbished by FAMAE in Chile. Check this earlier thread for more details: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8674


#5

Fede, is the term “trimestre” commonly used in Portuguese (if you happen to know) or is that a contract for a French speaking country?


#6

EOD - Trimestre is a Portuguese word as well, in this case meaning “third quarter” as in the third quarter of the year, I am pretty sure. Because this label is almost completely abbreviations, and because that particular word is almost the same in several languages, this label reads easily for English, Spanish, Italian, French and Portuguese speakers. Of course, you have to pretty well be familiar with the terminology on it to know what the first four abbreviations mean. I have an idea, but wont embarrass myself by trying to translate them here. It is likely that a Portuguese speaker with no knowledge of ammunition or “military things” could tell what they indicate either. Of course that is the case in every language. When I hear two doctors talking shop, I haven’t got a clue what the are talking about with all the medical terms, for example.


#7

Would be interesting to know as Alex asks, as I also have a 20 round box of Brazilian M1909 style blanks with abbreviation of “trimestre” I believe.

Joe




#8

Ok, so basically as it sounds, “loaded or packaged in the fourth trimester of the year”.


#9

John, thank you for the clarification. Though I knew what the word means and that all Romanic languages are easy to understand once you know one of them I was uncertain on the particular spelling here.


#10

I knew you would be familiar with it. I know you have excellent language abilities, far beyond mind, from your fluency in English, German and Russian, along with an obvious familiarity with many other languages. They are far beyond mine. I am always thinking more of people like me who do not have good language skills when I speak of languages on the Forum here.

I never really said it, but “Trimestre” is the Portuguese spelling. From your question, I assume it is probably the same in French, and certainly similar in Spanish and Italian as well. I don’t know about the other Romance language, Romanian. Even my Romanian-English dictionary is very poor and incomplete compared to other language dictionaries I have in my library.


#11

John, no worries!
Maybe Fede can help us out on the spelling?


#12

Alex, John and Joe, 4º Trimestre means the fourth period of three months, which is the same as saying 4th quarter (October to December). The rest of the abbreviations mean:

ME: Ministerio do Exercito
DFR: Diretoria de Fabricação e Recuperação
DMB: Diretoria de Material Bélico
FR: Fábrica do Realengo

In the box for blanks:
DPO: Departamento de Produção e Obras

The Brazilian shield illustrated in the upper part of these two boxes was implemented after 1968, when the country name changed from Estados Unidos do Brasil -used since November 15, 1889- to current República Federativa do Brasil.

In the box for blank cartridges the abbreviation “Ft Lam” means Festim Lâmina, which translates as “Blank in Charger/Clip”. A literal translation of Festim would be “Feast”, but in this case means “Salute” as in “Saluting Blanks”. Anyway, this dsignation was adopted for all types of blanks, not only for salute.

Regards,

Fede


#13

Fede, it seems you fell to the same thing as John before.
While we understand the meaning of the word we (or only me?) were interested in the spelling and if this is Portuguese spelling or maybe that of a nother Romanic language.
Maybe you can tell us?


#14

All of the words for the abbreviations that Fede wrote in his reply were given in the Portuguese language. It is similar, of course, to Spanish, but for me, as one who does not speak Portuguese at all although I can read some of it, the combination of letters “ção” offer immediate identification. The combination would not appear, to my knowledge, in either Spanish or Italian.

This is a box intended, in my opinion, for the Brazilian Army.


#15

Alex, the word “trimestre” is commonly used in Portuguese and Spanish language and pronounced tree-mes-tree and tree-mes-tre, respectively. The prefix “tri” is used for composite words with the meaning of “three”, like triángulo (triangle), triciclo (tricycle), trípode (tripod), etc.


#16

Fede, perfect, thanks for the confirmation!


#17

The military designation of M1 is for ammunition ball. Projectile of lead FMJ.


#18

If so, then why is it being used in combination with the “Ft Lam” to designate noise blanks?

Joe


#19

Well… My information was for Car 7.62X51. The designation .30 in the Brazilian Army was for 30-06. The “.30 M1 Ft Lam” is “Festim Laminado”. In English it would be something like “Blank in clip”. M1 is Model 1 for .30 Blak (30-06).
They were intended for the M908 Mauser Fz. On that date still in use in the Army. The FN FAL was adopted in 1964.
There was another type of Blank. It had a wooden nose. It was used on Madsen machine guns.


#20

Ok, now I fully understand. Thank you.

Maybe you can clear something else up for me. Why do the headstamped rounds in the “.30 M1 Ft Lam” labeled box have “.30 M2” impressed on them? Is it as simple as a noise blank in 30-06 is model number two?

Joe