7.62x51 Red/Orange tip ("gun show loading" plus info)

All, I’ve been looking through HWS Vol lll and can’t find record of this one, am I looking in the wrong place? HS Circle-Cross LC 75. No annulus sealant.

Bullet jacket GM or GMCS?

Appears to be GMCS and is highly magnetic. By the way Pete, and I feel stupid for asking, but what’s the main difference between the two?

GM (Gilding Metal) is copper colored and non magnetic.
GMCS (Gilding Metal Clad Steel) is copper colored and magnetic.
CN (Copper Nickel) is silver colored and not magnetic.
CNCS (Copper Nickel Clad Steel) is silver colored and magnetic.
A lot of exceptions, (tin, brass etc), but a good starting point.
I found this:

CN = Cupronickel (steel color, copper –nickel alloy)

CNCS = Cupronickel Clad Steel (magnetic)

GM = Gilding Metal (copper color, mostly copper-zinc)

GMCS = Gilding Metal Clad Steel (magnetic)

Tinned GM –US early, grayish appearance

Nickel plated GM – Mexico pre-WW2, bright appearance

Brass – Argentina, Belgium, Denmark, France, Italy, Spain,

etc., mostly pistol ammunition

Nickel plated brass- Belgium, Italy: pistol ammunition

Steel, unplated – Austria , pre-WW2

Brass plated steel – Russia WW2

Nickel plated steel – Czechoslovakia, bright appearance

Zinc plated steel – Germany, WW2 on ball ammunition

with mild steel core, oxidized to various shades of gray


I turned up several of these a few years ago and I’m away from my notes. I think they’ve been discussed on this Forum before. Try a search. I’ll chime in after I check my notes

Dan, thanks a lot. It’s kind of what I expected but couldn’t nail it down, I’m still new at this but what you said is kind of what I thought. The round in question is definitely magnetic and copper colored.

Pepper, thanks, I tried searching but maybe I wasn’t using correct key words in my search, thus I came here to post…

Now the question still remains, what is this round that I have?

Crickets? Does no one here know what this round is?

Those are standard M61 7.62 nato tracers BUT the extra red ring was added commercially later on. I can’t remember who repackaged them.

I wound up with many of these buying a pile of surplus 7.62 nato. They came in blister packs, 5 or 6 rounds per. I’m afraid I put them all in an airtight dish with moisture absorbers to keep good so I’m not sure if I still have the original packaging. I’ll have to dig them out when I get home & see.

Never thought I’d see them on a collector’s forum! I just shoot them after a good snow.


Thanks for your reply and if you do find an original repack I would love to see a picture!

Here ya go bud:

I tossed all the blister packs but theres the original label. Got some serious snake oil advertising going on there like… low fire hazard & improves accuracy lol

Mine are of a similar vintage as yours, mid 70’s


Lol ok… unfortunately I purchased one round from an IAA recommended site but my fault for not asking for more information prior to purchase. Too bad the crooks have infiltrated here as well.

It’ll make a nice addition to the dingbat box. Thanks for taking the time to get back to me.

V/r Henry

We all have a place (drawer) for “fakes”. (Dingbats, stuffers, reloads, weirdos, etc)(especially a place for “gun show” loads which is especially easy to fill with 12 ga specials…the descriptive names are a collection in themselves)

They have a place in reference collections (Woodin lab had quite a grouping).

No reason to be disappointed other than if there was deception and or sizable $$.

A whole other speciality


Hi Pepper, yea, I paid 20 bucks but again, my fault for not checking. Just surprised another IAA member would be a part of selling gun show loads… anyway no big deal at all, just the price of tuition!!

No idea who the seller was, & your right he should have notified you it was a gun show or machine gun shooters round.

I can only say some folk are to lazy to check, it did look right? It’s not their interest & so might not have a book or reference collection.

IAA guys are honest & if you are unhappy, ask for your money back?

Thanks Pete. The description on the website was simply “red/orange” tip. I had purchased several others from the same person so I didn’t think much of it until I actually started to try and identify the round. I assumed it was legit because of whom I bought it from and the fact that this persons website was recommended by this website.

It’s no problem really and again, I should have asked prior to purchase. All I can say is that this person has lost my business from here on out… if 20 bucks is all that I have lost then it was worth the price of admission for me brother believe me, lesson learned for me and lost revenue for the other guy.

Based upon this, there isn’t really anything to suggest that the seller was trying to deceive you. He may simply have no idea what it was and thought that the description would identify it correctly to those in the know. Have you been in contact with him?

That’s correct, hence my acceptance of responsibility. However… as an IAA member I would never sell something unless I knew what it was that I was selling first. Just seems proper to me I guess…

Mayhem what I was trying to say.

if nothing else tell him what they are & see if he updates the info on his site so others won’t be paying $20 for a $2 gun show round.

Ok, I will try and do so. But I did write an email to this person asking him what it was, explaining that I had no idea and that I have asked others and I never received a response.

So I’m guessing either this person has no idea what it is and is putting a 20 dollar price tag for no reason, or, he knows it’s BS and is just putting it out there squeezing what he can from suckers like me.

It’s all good though, my grandma told me long ago that if you loan someone 20 bucks and never see them again then it was worth it.

The fact that I emailed this person and never received a response, when I have received responses before, tells me he doesn’t care or doesn’t know. His loss not mine. Lesson learned. I’m just glad there are other members here knowledgeable enough and willing to share that knowledge.

I assume you paid 20.00 for one round. That is, of course, ten times the value of the round. However, I would not be too quick in branding the round a fake. The label provided, which unfortunately has no real information on it (no seller’s name, etc.), appears to be a commercial endeavor - that is, repacked surplus ammunition with a darker red tip added likely because most Americans identify red tips (not orange) with tracers, and then offered for commercial sale. Since the round IS a tracer, it appears that the company that did this was not attempting to produce a product falsely identified for the purpose to deceive.

It is simply a case of re-treading a military item into a commercial one. If I were saving .308s (7.62 x 51 NATO), I would purchase one of these, if properly priced for what it is, and I knew what it was, and put it in my collection properly identified. That is, of course, if I was collecting commercial .308s as well as military 7.62 x 51 NATO rounds.

Just my thoughts on the matter. If one is only interested in military, that it really has no place in a collection.

John Moss