7.62x54R identification help


#1

I have some light brown paper packages tied with a white string that contain 20 rounds of what appears to be copper washed steel cases, brass colored primers, bullet is a lighter shade of copper with no markings, and the head stamp is a 3 point layout with 77 9 46.

If you look at it with the 46 at the 6 o’clock position, the 77 (or maybe LL?) is a 2 o’clock and the 9 (or 6?) is at 10 o’clock.

Anyone know where this ammo was made?

Edit: added pictures. Man! It’s difficult to get these markings to show up!




#2

jjjxlr8, could you make a scan of the head stamp please? Otherwise it is very hard to tell.


#3

Could the “77” be “17”? If so, it sounds like 1946 production from Barnaul (factory 17) in either June (6) or September (9). This would be lead cored type “L” ball ammunition.

Otherwise, nothing else in my headstamp checklist looks close.

AKMS


#4

Yeah, it’s lead cored and has a very deep conical pocket in the bottom of the bullet. I should try to get some pictures of the bullet, too!

Added bullet pics:



#5

AKMS, the “L” ball was out of service since 1968 (production stopped even earlier) and no months have been encountered on Russian head stamps since 1945/6.


#6

See the head stamp now, looks much like “17 46 9”.

Should be Barnaul (Russia) in Sept. 1946 (or 1945?) with “L” ball.


#7

Wow. 1946. Is this stuff worth hanging on to? I was planning on feeding my M91/30 with it.


#8

Over here in Germany you will not find this head stamp often. I for example do not have it.


#9

[quote=“jjjxlr8”]I have some light brown paper packages tied with a white string that contain 20 rounds of what appears to be copper washed steel cases, brass colored primers, bullet is a lighter shade of copper with no markings, and the head stamp is a 3 point layout with 77 9 46.

If you look at it with the 46 at the 6 o’clock position, the 77 (or maybe LL?) is a 2 o’clock and the 9 (or 6?) is at 10 o’clock.

Anyone know where this ammo was made?

[/quote]

Try to read it as 44 46 6 and you will receive the headstamp with manufacturer code 46 (i.e. Cartridge Plant #46, Sverdlowsk), year of production 1944 and month of production - July.


#10

I bought two hundred of these at a gun show last month for plinking ammo but had know idea how old the stuff was. The guy also had a sealed can of 440 (I think?) that he was selling for $69 USD.

I am heading to the gun show tomorrow and will see what other types of 7.62x54R I can find…

EOD -
I will have to check on the laws for shipping live rounds internationally, but if it is legal, I would be happy to send you a few rounds for your collection if you covered shipping costs.

Jeremy

edit: OK, I guess it is illegal for me to sell ammo without a license. I would give it to you(it was only $0.25/round) but I think I would have to render it useless before I shipped it internationally. Are you interested in empty cases with fired primers? I’ll have plenty of those as soon as the weather improves. :)


#11

I just came across some more 7.62x54R Russian surplus ammo that has a brass colored bullet and a copper washed case. It was made in the same plant (17) as the round pictured above, but it was made a year earlier in 1945.

I took one apart and the lead core appears to be slightly different. I’ll take some pictures and weigh the bullets and see if there is a difference.

Did plant 17 switch from brass colored bullets to copper washed bullets in 1946?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found the answer in another thread. I guess the “copper washed bullets” are not copper washed but are tombac bullets. The brass colored bullets were produced during the frequent shortages of tombac. Thanks treshkin.


#12

[quote=“jjjxlr8”]
EDIT: Nevermind. I found the answer in another thread. I guess the “copper washed bullets” are not copper washed but are tombac bullets. The brass colored bullets were produced during the frequent shortages of tombac. Thanks treshkin.[/quote]

No problem. Only one addition - not tombac bullet, but bullet envelope of tomac clad steel


#13

Yes both bullets are steel with lead cores and both of the bullets weighed 149 grains.

Thanks!


#14

I recenty acquired some of this same exact 7.62x54r that you are talking about. The seller reports that the ammunition is very “hot” and was causing the bolts in his rifles to become very hard to open. He sold it to me a “collector” ammo only with the warning to not shoot it. I pulled a few rounds apart and found the cases are corroding internally, but no other obvious reason for the purported extra power or pressure… Once the weather is warmer here I plan to chronograph a few rounds and see if this guy is correct. The rest will be pulled down for componants for reloading…

AKMS


#15

Something to keep in mind is that “hot” (as in chamber pressure) and “hot” (as in muzzle velocity) can be very loosely related, if at all. Depending on how appropriate a propellant has been selected, a given velocity may have been obtained at a desirable pressure level, or at a rather elevated one. I have in recent years fired ammunition that gave every evidence of having been loaded with a powder that was too fast burning, thereby giving excessive pressures before standard velocities were ever achieved. JG


#16

[quote=“AKMS”]I recenty acquired some of this same exact 7.62x54r that you are talking about. The seller reports that the ammunition is very “hot” and was causing the bolts in his rifles to become very hard to open. He sold it to me a “collector” ammo only with the warning to not shoot it. I pulled a few rounds apart and found the cases are corroding internally, but no other obvious reason for the purported extra power or pressure… Once the weather is warmer here I plan to chronograph a few rounds and see if this guy is correct. The rest will be pulled down for componants for reloading…

AKMS[/quote]

Interestingly enough, the 1945 ammo with the brass colored bullets do cause some spent case sticking in the chamber for some reason. The tombac rounds dated 1946 do not have this problem in the same M91/30 rifle. The results were the same with a second M91/30 rifle. The brass bullet ammo also seems to have more split case necks in both rifles than the tombac coated bullet ammo.