7.62x54R Remington 17 M1909 blank?

#1

I found this blank in a bulk lot of material last winter and cannot find a reference to it. The neck cannelure, paper wad and dark lacquer (shellac?) sealant certainly mimic the M1909 .30-06 blank, but nowhere can I find any indication we loaded these. Ball, dummy and proof, yes, but not a blank. Has anyone ever seen one before (I’ve not) or have any reference on it?

The primer looks much more recent than 1917, there is no primer sealant in evidence and there is a hint of resizing marks on the case (particularly a smoother “belt” of about .125" height just above the rim), but everything around the top of the neck looks “arsenal” to me.

Any ideas?

762x54R_Rem17_BlankComp.jpg800x269

.

#2

Please excuse for my curiosity but has somebody an image of a dummy?

#3

I have a almost identical cartridge made by Raufoss used in a Jarmann rifle converted to a harpoon rifle, the cal. is 10,15 x 61mm.

1015x61JarmannHarpoon-1.jpg800x222


5388_s_gevaer_2.jpg800x293

#4

I’m not aware of any harpoon blanks in such a small caliber as the 7.62x54R, but such things are WAY beyond my limited expertise.

.

#5

I haven’t seen one of those before, but I’d like to.

Here ya go EOD, 16 dated, wood rod inside, four holes.

#6

Hendere, thank you, that’s great. Wish I had one…
What is the head stamp?

Tip: putting a piece of white paper over the cartridge will improve the image quality a lot.

#7

Alex,
I think there was one of those Remington dummies in the trade we were discussing.

#8

Hendere - it didn’t answer my question, but I sure appreciate the photo of the 7.62x54R Remington dummy! Sa-weet ! Thank you!

.

#9

BTT - still hoping someone has some information on this specimen!

#10

[quote=“Iconoclast”]I found this blank in a bulk lot of material last winter and cannot find a reference to it. The neck cannelure, paper wad and dark lacquer (shellac?) sealant certainly mimic the M1909 .30-06 blank, but nowhere can I find any indication we loaded these. Ball, dummy and proof, yes, but not a blank. Has anyone ever seen one before (I’ve not) or have any reference on it?

The primer looks much more recent than 1917, there is no primer sealant in evidence and there is a hint of resizing marks on the case (particularly a smoother “belt” of about .125" height just above the rim), but everything around the top of the neck looks “arsenal” to me.

Any ideas?

.[/quote]

I also have never seen such blank before.
And I have no references on it.

But I have a guess-work. After Russian “October Revolution” 1917, the supply of american made Mosin rifles and 7,62x54R cartridges was ceased. The rest of Russian weapons then was passed to Russian anti-comunist forces. And also some Russian rifles was used by USA army for training. So, your sample may be reload from Ball cartridge to Blank for training.

#11

Now I have a question.
On the last ECRA show in Germany I’ve got this US 7.62x54R Dummy. Tinned case, 1 hole drilled (looks genuine), nickled projectile with 1 circumferencial knurling about 4mm above the case mouth.
The case head has that very thin lined ring around the primer and it has some round small circles on it distrubuted evenly.
It looks a bit like the bunter got an insert somehow which may be related to the primer pocket (unlikely though).
Can anyone explain it?

#12

Teak…The mouth area on the 7.62 x 54R looks a heck of alot like the bazillions of .30-40 Krag blanks Remington made…and if you look at a ball round, 7.62 x 54R, with 16 or 17 date, don’t they have a flat nickeled primer??..Looks legit to me…but don’t have any info other than that…Randy

#13

Teak…I had another thought…were these possibly made as movie blanks…later than 1917…using “left-over” cases ?

#14

Thanks, Randy.

When I didn’t pick up any answers here, I asked Mr. Woodin. He advises he has this and he, too, suspects it to be a movie blank.

.

#15

[quote=“EOD”]Now I have a question.
On the last ECRA show in Germany I’ve got this US 7.62x54R Dummy. Tinned case, 1 hole drilled (looks genuine), nickled projectile with 1 circumferencial knurling about 4mm above the case mouth.
The case head has that very thin lined ring around the primer and it has some round small circles on it distrubuted evenly.
It looks a bit like the bunter got an insert somehow which may be related to the primer pocket (unlikely though).
Can anyone explain it?
[/quote]

Nobody?

#16

[quote=“EOD”][quote=“EOD”]Now I have a question.
On the last ECRA show in Germany I’ve got this US 7.62x54R Dummy. Tinned case, 1 hole drilled (looks genuine), nickled projectile with 1 circumferencial knurling about 4mm above the case mouth.
The case head has that very thin lined ring around the primer and it has some round small circles on it distrubuted evenly.
It looks a bit like the bunter got an insert somehow which may be related to the primer pocket (unlikely though).
Can anyone explain it?
[/quote]

Nobody?[/quote]

I have a piece of 7,62x54R case with the same “marking”. It was found in WWI trench in West Ukraine. There was front line between Russia and Austro-Hungary. I have never seen another one samles with such circle stamp around the primer. All cases from my collection made by USCCo have a standart markings and brass bulging primer. I met nickel-plated primers only in cases made by Western.

#17

Privet treshkin,
yes, your’s seems to be the same.
Mine may have a nickled primer because it is made as a dummy (?).
Good to know that these marks existed on loaded cases aswell.
I still hope that our US-friends here can tell a bit more.

#18

Privet, EOD, or in Ukrainian it may looks like “Pryvit”!

On account of my sample - it’s in a very poor condition and I am not able to say it was Ball round or Dummy. I take it only over his unusual circle mark. I think it was a Ball cartridge, because it is a main find in our WWI trenches or Civil War battle-fields. I have never seen American made Dummy 7,62x54R in our region.

The main in our both samples is a circle crimping. So we can mention that it was something like standard element for this round or it was a special mark, indicated something (type of cartridge, special design, etc).

I also think that your sample have nickeled primer because it is Dummy. I mean it’s may be reloaded empty primer cup. My point of view, that a lot of Ball cartridges made for Russia was unloaded and converted to Dummy or Blank by Americans after 1918. I am not sure that Russian Order was generally include also Dummy or Blank cartridges. May be it was not quite reasonable to organize the delivery Dummy or blanks 7,62x54R by Sea in a period “cartridge shortage” 1915-17, when Russian army need first of all a Ball cartridges. But it is only my assumption, because we have lost a lot of State Archives during Civil War and later - during WWII.