7.62x63 .30 M2 by Olin


#1

I examined this empty box and it looks a bit odd to see the military designation on something that looks like a commercial box.
Anybody to explain the background of this box.


#2

Most of these ‘white’ boxes were for military oriented consumption. Perhaps issued for testing, practice, police or ??? If commercial it would very likely be colorful & have graphics.


#3

Pete, yes, the plain design made me wonder too.
I just wonder why it does not say “Ball” or “FMJ” as this would be more understandable to any duty folks.
“M2 150grain” is not very helpfull to normal folks I guess.


#4

That carton probably dates from the 1950s. It could be overruns from a government contract that WW packaged and sold commercially. Much like the 7.62mm NATO and 5.56 x 45 from LCAAP overruns that is very common today.


#5

I see the inside of a flap says: 50F3

Maybe Rene or Chris can say more?


#6

Normal “White Box” Export ammunition by both Winchester and Western Cartridge;( 1950s). Usually ammo has a “Commercial” type Headstamp ( ie, WRA 7,9mm, WRA .303, WRA .45 etc) but may also have Military Headstamps as well. Many countries bought ammo from the USA this way, usually with US Aid funds ( ie, NO money left the US, just the ammo.).

Doc AV


#7

One thing different today is that overruns are packaged much more attractively. The Federal GM762M2 is nothing but overruns from the USN contract for Mk316 Mod0 ammunition and the XM80C is plain vanilla M80 from LCAAP.

Ray


#8

I believe the white box .30 cartridges shown were produced for “Foreign Military Sales” or “Foreign Military Assistance” where the U.S. would give various allies a bunch of money for military assistance grants, but with the requirement that it be spent in the U.S. This was a different funding pipeline than programs which transferred arms and ammunition purchased by the U.S. military and would be transferred from military inventory.

Basically just allowing our allies to get what they wanted from a different pot of money than U.S. Department of Defense purchased stuff.

I cannot cite a reference for this, and it may or may not be correct, but it is a recollection of something I heard a long time ago, so take it for what it is worth.


#9

Gentlemen, thank you for your assessments!
Just for the record, the box is not dirty white but (real) light grey.


#10

The so-called “white box” ammunition was very common during the last half of the 20th Century. It was being sold by both Winchester and Remington. Almost all of it was in military calibers and military type loadings. Since there was virtually no commercial market outside the U.S. for ammunition of that type, we can only conclude that it was overruns from government contracts. Much the same as the current day military type ammunition being offered.

As John S said, there is no documentation of this but it is the only conclusion that makes sense. (Current day sales of contract overruns is well documented BTW)

Ray


#11

I have two similar boxes in my collection

The first box contains one cartridge with headstamp WCC 54. It is a standard M2 round.
I always thought that these were military overruns but I have nothing in written to prove that.

The second box is still full. the cartridges are headstamped W W SUPER over 30-06.
These rounds have FMJ bullet with a CN jacket, so these can’t be military over-runs.
Why these are packed this way, I don’t know.

Not much help I guess . . . . .

cheers
René


#12

[quote=“RayMeketa”]The so-called “white box” ammunition was very common during the last half of the 20th Century. It was being sold by both Winchester and Remington. Almost all of it was in military calibers and military type loadings. Since there was virtually no commercial market outside the U.S. for ammunition of that type, we can only conclude that it was overruns from government contracts. Much the same as the current day military type ammunition being offered.

As John S said, there is no documentation of this but it is the only conclusion that makes sense. (Current day sales of contract overruns is well documented BTW)

Ray[/quote]

Dear Ray, There was quite a “Commercial” Trade ( read Export to Gov’ts, Pseud- Gov’t organisations, Arms Dealers (International) and so on), in the 1950s and 60s, usually with the Placet of the State Department ( and the CIA). The ammo may have been “US Military Overruns” but in the case of the “W-W Super .30-06” was a normal “Export” supply; which both Win and Rem had been doing since the late 1800s. ( Look at the Millions of rounds of 7mm supplied to Latin America, all simply marked “WRA 7mm”).

And it was not only restricted to US .30 Cal.: Many other calibres ( as I mentioned above) were also “Exported” all in similar “White Box” Packing. Even during the WW II “Lend Lease” period, all LL ammo was similarly Packed…Only such as the .303 and the .300Z was specifically Headstamped for Britain, with a “Military” style Headstamp incl.Date. The .45 and the 9mm was all “Commercial Headstamp” and White Box. And whilst it may have been “Organised” by Britain initially, it was spread around the British Commonwealth, and the Allied Nations. Even Israel ( Haganah) managed to get Winchester (WRA) .303 in the Pre-independence period, probably from intermediaries in the USA. Whether it was direct from Winchester, or via the US Gov’t Disposal Office ( I remember ads in the immediate Post-war American Rifleman Mag in my collections, listing “Lend Lease” .303 Br by WRA and Rem, in original Packets, from the USG disposal agency via Dealers and Jobbers) or by OPther Means, I can’t say.

Something to chew on…
Doc AV
Old Curmudgeon and Grizzly bear.


#13

DocAV

I think we agree on most things, except semantics. When I said “commercial market” I meant a civilian market as compared to government, including military.

Rene

The headstamp on your second carton indicates manufacture in the 1970s at the earliest. The commercial headstamp would not necessarily preclude a government contract. The contract specifications may have allowed for such a headstamp, and there are many examples of military ammunition with the commercial headstamp of the period (and commercial packaging as well).

Ray