7,63 Mauser Box (50 rds) from DWM..Date?


#1

Here a box I got yesterday, All sides “mounted” together to have an overview of the whole box.
For me it is my first box from DWM with the DWM-Number headstamp printed on the outside of the side-label.
Can someone decode the time-code stamp on the backside?? It is 037 AEV (bluish rubberstamp).
Bullets are magnetic, copper primer

Peter


#2

Peter,
As far as I know, no one had figured out the DWM codes. BKIW was used by DWM from June 1933 to June 1936 so that gives you a general time range. There is a 9mmP box with a similar BIWK label reportely stamped 039 AVE. 028 AEV is on a red 20 round box of 7.63M but is not marked BIWK, thought it may be a contract box, not commercial.

but there are quite a few other BKIW marked boxes in a variety of calibers with the stamps listed below:
132 AV
152 AZ
154 A
17 PL
179 G
208 II
WT 301
307 PL
325 ASV
361 U
711 L
872 WT

I had hoped the first letter was the year, but there are 7 first letters(A, G, I, L, P, U, W). Perhaps the letters cover 6 months each like Remington used, then June 33-June 36 would require 6 letters, but perhaps they continued to use the labels for a bit after the name changed to use them up instead of throwing them away so perhaps 7 letters were used for Load Codes!

I have tried to figure out if the letters showed the day an month but have had no luck. I also have no idea why there were sometimes one letter, sometimes two and sometimes 3.

There are commercial rifle rounds with 5 numbers ahead of the letters HA which may be a different code entirely.

Codes without the BKIW marked labels have the following first letters
A, a, E, L, s, T, U, V, W.

If anyone has other DWM box labels, particularly BKIW marked, please post them or send me an email describing them. images like Peters are the best.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

Lew, I think 1933 is a typo. According to Lampel, DWM name changed to BKIW in 1922. In any case it must have been in the twenties.


#4

JOCHEN; THATS CORRECT; but as the box pictured above by me, has the wording " vormals Deutsche Waffen-und Munitionsfabriken" behind the BKIW Name, it means really like LEW wrote, that the timeframe is 1933 to 1936…
"from WIKI: DWM changed to BKIW in 1922 AND after the national-socialist takeover of power in Germany, the company added ‘vormals Deutsche -Waffen und Munitionsfabriken’ (former DWM) to the company name in 1933. …and In 1936 DWM reverted to its old name.(DWM only,)

Lew and Jochen, thx for your help
PP


#5

Peter, great box, thanks for sharing.

The information published in Wikipedia and other sources may lead to wrong interpretations, and should be explained better. BKIW added “formerly Deutsche Waffen- un Munitionsfabriken” from the very beginning, but was first expressed as “früher” or “formerly” (1922-1933) and later as “vorm.”, “vormals” or “formerly” (1933-1936). During 1933-34 you still can find both “früher” and “vormals”, an example being the 1934 catalog -prepared in late 1933-, that shows “früher” on the cover but “vormals” on the first page. English language publications from any date always indicate “formerly Deutsche -Waffen und Munitionsfabriken”.

In any case, I agree that a box reading “vorm.” or “vormals” can’t be earlier than 1933 and later than 1936.

Regards,

Fede


#6

How comes the boxes do not feature the “BKIW NICORRO” headstamp?
How did the boxes with these headstamps look like?


#7

As always, you guys catch my errors. The source of my dates, Jun 33-Jun 36 was Brandt Pg 665, but I miss read it, or my lack of a basic knowledge of German.

BERLIN-KARLSRUHER INDUSTRIE-WERKE AG formerly DEUTSCHE WAFFEN UND MUNITIONSFABRIKEN : 29 Jun 1933 - June 1936

I granslated both "früher” and “vormals” as formerly!

I have gone back over the records I used for my previous email and found images of 4 9mmP08 boxes which use "früher”. These have date codes 395 a, 233 aV, 266 sV, and 483U. It is significant to me that all the codes I have with a lower case first letter code all have "früher” !!!

Unless I misunderstand your comments above, these boxes would all have been loaded in 1933 or earlier. If this is true than perhaps “U” indicates 1933 since it is upper case and the “U” code also occurs with labels marked “vormals”. The other two first letters are “a” and “s” so these are probably1932 or earlier. I doubt that DWM loaded commercial9mmP08 ammunition any earlier than 1930??? or these could be simple day or month codes from 1933???

The box listed in my previous post “17 PL” is a .22LR box and it also uses "früher” on the label.

I will check my DWM export catalogs and see when they first list 9mm Luger. I don’t think I have any before 1933 so this may not be very useful.

Again, Thanks for the insight. This helps.

More box photos would also help a lot!

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Hello Fede
I am not talking about the year of this box, but on your remark.

I disagree with " first expressed as “früher” (1922-1933) "**

Perhaps it is true after 1924 but I have price lists of 1923 and 1924 and it is written “vormals” and not “früher”

JP


#9

JP and Fede,
This is great information and really helps in dividing boxes into time groups which may help in identifying which part of the date codes identify the year.

I don’t believe DWM used labels on 9mmPo8 with either “früher” or “vormals” before the very late 1920s. The earlier boxes that I know of were 16 round an just had only" Deutsche Waffen un Munitionsfabriken Karlsruhe Baden " This is just a guess because there are a lot of these type boxes.

Thanks for your information.

Cheers,
Lew


#10

Hi guy’s

This box has a marking 2. Lieferung 34.
The “2” and 34 are hard to read.
On the bottom, as far as I can read;
42 . K. K.A.S.R.5.M

Rgds


#11

JP, thanks, I didn’t notice this. This change may have ocurred sometime during 1924, because I have a brocure from October 1924 where it is already expressed as “früher”.

Regards,

Fede


#12

hello
Surely because mine is dated 10 Januar 1924 and there is also written Direkter Export ab 1.1.24 (direct export from 1.1.24)
jp