7.63 mauser pistol headstamp


#1

@ 12 o’clock K
@ 3 o’clock *
@ 6 o’clock B
@ 9 0’clock * who made it ?
This round has a nickel jacketed soft point projectile, and I have a 7.63 mauser round with what appears to be the identicle projectile headstamped G W H .
The stars have squarish lines as with the RWS 6 pointed stars


#2

I think, that it early marking of Kynoch Company.
Till about 1913.


#3

Kynoch Birmingham is a possibility, but the headstamp does not look like any Kynoch headstamp I have seen and I have many hundreds.
Kellor and Co. Vienna is listed as a possibility in the reference HEADSTAMPS
and Cartridge Identification Data by Warren R Horn.


#4

[quote=“Terry”]Kynoch Birmingham is a possibility, but the headstamp does not look like any Kynoch headstamp I have seen and I have many hundreds.
Kellor and Co. Vienna is listed as a possibility in the reference HEADSTAMPS
and Cartridge Identification Data by Warren R Horn.[/quote]

I used book Henry Packard White and Burton D. Munhall, Cartridge headstamp Guide, 1963. Page 133, headstamp # 1159.

Ghost.


#5

It has always been my understanding that the K * B * headstamp was early Kynoch.

Keller & Co. were using their normal K & C headstamp at that time and it would most likely have a case number in the headstamp.

I will try to see if any of the old Kynoch drawings include this headstamp.

Regards
TonyE


#6

There is no question what-so-ever anywhere in the cartridge world, that I am aware of, that * K * B is a Kynoch, Brimingham headstamp. It has nothing at all to do with the G.W.H. headstamps. In the same format, without the stars, and on the same case type, the rounds were loaded specifically for the 7.65mm Borchardt. These are early headstamps. They also have nothing to do with Keller & Company.

Again, in the Australian Bulletin some years ago was an excellent article on the Borchardt round including this headstamp, as well as an article explaining the entire history of the G.W.H. headstamps.

Further, every headstamp guide in my own library so-identifies this headstamp, most importantly, due to its British nationality, “The Identification of Metallic Cartridge Headstamps,” by R. G. Goodman, Proof Department, published by Imperial Chemical Industries Ltd. (ICI), Metals Division, in March 1960.

I think what makes it seem unusual as a Kynoch Headstamp to many is the fact that it only seems to appear on the 7.63 Mauser, and without the stars, on 7.65 Borchardt ammunition. However, this is not at all unusual for Kynoch. I have several styles of Kynoch headstamp, for example, that only appear on 7.65m/m Browning cartridges. Unlike some ammunition manufacturers, even excluding military contract rounds that are often headstamped as the buyer demands, Kynoch did not seem wed to any specific pattern of headstamp, even within specific calibers. The number of different 7.9 x 57 Kynoch headstamps, for example, is amazing, some being different only as to a few dots or their absence.

The * K * B headstamp was probably the first Kynoch 7.63mm Mauser headstamp (not necessarily the first Kynoch 7.63 cartridge, as there are many English-made 7.63 Mauser rounds with no headstamp). There doesn’t seem to be any information as to when it was initiated, but several sources indicate it was discontinued around 1913.


#7

John is absolutely right about Kynoch using different styles for different calibres. One of the (many) styles used is that on the .577/.450 rounds of “GKB” and even just a lion’s head, their company symbol.

I have checked the earliest Kynoch drawing I have (1899) but it does not show a headstamp. The drawing is interesting though for two reason. Firstly it is mistakenly titled “7mm Mauser Cartridge” when the dimensions clearly show it is a 7.63mm, and secondly because it shows the Westley Richards “All Range” bullet which was the subject of some discussion here a while back.

Regards
TonyE


#8

Tony - Do you have a date of that discussion? I have that bullet with the Kynoch Brimingham hs, and I’d like to read it.
Thanks,
Sam


#9

Try doing a search for “All Range” by clicking on search at the top of the Forum.


#10

Thank you all, have entered it as DEFINATLY "KYNOCH"
Terry.


#11

Thanks Ron, that worked!
I checked my two All Range rounds, and they are quite different. Headstamped * K * B has about a .015 larger extractor groove.
Headstamp * D.M. * K. has a 3 stab bullet crimp.
The Brimingham round is 1.285 oa, while the Karlsruhe is 1.346 oa. Most of that difference is from the amount of exposed Cupronickel. The Kynoch CN is about .185 vs .240 on the German round. I assume one is for the the 1896 Mannlicher pistol, and one is for the 1896 Mauser pistol?
sam


#12

K * B * is a heastamp of Kynoch Limited because it appears on the Westley Richards ‘All-Range’ cartridge manufactured exclusively for them by Kynoch from late 1899/early 1900. I have an un-headstamped ‘All-Range’ round which I believe (but have no conclusive evidence) dates from initial production in July/August 1899. Trade journals were reviewing the ‘All-Range’ in September 1899 (see earlier discussion on the ‘All-Range’) I have 5 and 6 pointed stars with the K B hst on ‘All-Range’ (& FMJ & SP) - for reasons unknown.
When George Kynoch & Company Limited were reorganized as Kynoch Limited in 1897, the new company actively promoted Birmingham as the source of its products. Shotshells appeared with KYNOCH BIRMINGHAM hsts, as did promotional .303 pencils dating from 1898/99 (see that catalogue). I also have 6.5m/m MS FMJ & SP rounds with the K * B * hst - demonstrating the wide use of the Birmingham connection for a few years at the turn of the century.
Kynoch never marketed or sold the ‘All-Range’ cartridges with the K * B * hst or any other hst. The ‘All-Range’ was made exclusively for Westley Richards. In fact Kynoch never marketed or sold 7.63m/m Mauser cartridges until about 1908/09 - only .30 Borchardt cartridges. The use of K B hst without stars to designate Borchardt loads is questionable. I have ‘All-Range’ cartridges hst’d K B. Why would Westley Richards (and Mauser) allow their patented ‘All-Range’ bullet to be used to bolster sales of the rival Borchardt pistol??


#13

Hi John. I am going to muddy the waters a bit. When I was in England last year, I was able to photograph two 7.63 Mauser Pistol boxes. Ones states:
Calibre 7.63 m/m. 20 .300 Bore.
Cordite Cartridges for the
Mauser Self-Loading Pistol and Carbine
with
Westley Richard’s Patent “All Range” Destructive Bullet

(I can’t remember the headstamp)

Second box was the same except for:

Soft Nosted Bullets.

(I can’t remeber the headstamp).

One of the boxes had the round 'Westley Richards & Co. Ltd Birmingham trademard label on the side. Otherwise the maker was unidentified. One would assume they were Kynoch, but I don’t remember (senility?), and they are not available to be looked at again. I will bring the pictures to St. L.