a few questions
- NHS. narrow extractor groove. full circle bullet crimp
Is this UMC manufacture? Story behind full circle bullet crimp?
- D * *
Bullet jacket cuts look very well made. Story behind this.
- typical DWM headstamp
a few questions
The first cartridge is not from UMC, but rather likely a product
of Eley’s in England.
I don’t recall seeing a bullet like the one with the cut in cross
on the bullet. It is not the typical Schlitze bullet which is a soft
point, with the slits only on the sides of the bullet jacket. It is
very well done, as you point out, but it does not strike me as
original to the FMJ bullet. I suspect it was some individual’s
idea of trying to make an expanding bullet out of a FMJ one.
Just my opinion, but I cannot say I am positive about that.
The D * * headstamp is an early one for the Gustav Genschow
Company, of Durlach, Germany.
The one on the right is a normal DWM commercial round,
probably, since it has a GM (GMCS likely) bullet jacket,
from late in the WWI era or after, until the time when they
dropped serifs from the headstamp in, as I recall, the mid-1920s.
I agree with JM on the middle one…
I have seen many of these over the years, all very well done…
Let’s deal with the first issue first. Those appear to be 7.63 Mauser rounds, 7.65 Mauser being a rifle round. Yes, I’m being picky, but it is an important distinction for those who might stop by later looking for info. ;)
I think in this case the mistake was made between the 7.65 Luger and the 7.63 Mauser
I think the design of cruciform on the nose of your 7.63 Mauser is very similar to that on the nose of an early looking .45 ACP cartridge that I have, which also does not look ‘home-made’. Cupro-nickle jacket, brass case, and small brass primer. There’s a seating canneleure in the case, and four punch crimps around the case to secure the bullet, and the headstamp is simply ‘.45.A.C’.
That .45 Auto round is also a product of England. I forget off-hand
if it was made by Eley, or after Kynoch took over from them.
Once again, in my view, while nicely done, I do not believe that is
factory work. There are plenty of shooters who are excellent craftsman.
Also, one only has to look at some known fakes to see this kind of
workmanship. Now, don’t everyone get excited. I am not saying I classify
this cartridge as a fake. I suspect it is simply someone that from all the
myths about cutting an X into the tip of bullets to turn them into expanding
types, decided to “improve” on the ammunition he was using.
A couple of images of some 7.63 Mauser in my collection. The first three have the smooth ring canneleure at the neck, and the fourth (bottom right headstamp) has the punch crimps at the neck. I believe the first one is similar to your No.1 (Unheadstamped, top left image of head).
Pete - that is an interesting photo. If the headstamps are in the same
order as the picture of the cartridges in profile, that is the first I recall
seeing of a headstamped round with the long neck, the one with ^ ELEY ^ .30
headstamp (I am using he “^” mark to represent the odd 4-points symbols,
which I cannot reproduce here). My only long case round, out of a total of
eight with the neck cannelure, has no headstamp.
There is an additional headstamp found with both FMJ and SN bullets,
Thanks for posting the picture. It is always good to know what exists out
there. Eley seems to have been the only company that made these neck-
cannelured .30 Mauser rounds.
Thanks John, that’s very useful additional info. The lower left headstamp (with the smaller font & curved upper surface to the ‘3’) in my image relates to the third cartridge along (with the long neck), Pete.
My answer has one confusing portion, not unusual for me. The
ELEY’S .30 MAUSER headstamp is in my collection in both
FMJ and SP loadings.
The short-necked round with brass primer is a whole different issue.
I have that in my collection too, but it is without headstamp, and I assume
from all the other features that it is Eley manufacture.
The way I wrote it originally, it sounds like I was talking about the brass
primer cup in conjunction with the ELEY’S .30 MAUSER headstamp, I wasn’t!
Mea culpa. Sorry about that. Sometimes my fingers work faster on the keys
than my mind does. Heck, sometimes my mind doesn’t work at all these days.
No problem, I know the feeling! Thanks again for the info. I’m just heading off to work, but will check my other 7.63 Ms when I get back for the variations you highlighted.
Thanks for the early 30 Mauser loads by Eley. Below is an early Kynoch box of 30 Mauser which, along with an early DWM box came with a very nice, Chinese made Mauser Carbine by Tsingtao Ironworks, SN 6. Two C-96s made by Tsingtao Ironworks are known are known, SNs 14 & 19. Tsingtao is in the German occupied portion of China and I am told Tsingtao beer is still referred to as :German beer" in China.
The box does no have a date code. The headstamp on the Kynoch loads is very early. The style predates any 9x19mm I know of by Kynoch or Eley.
Are there any boxes for the early Eley 30 Mauser cartridges???
Thanks Lew, nice images. I’m afraid my cartridges that I uploaded images of are all singles, no boxes, Pete.