7.63 mm Mauser boxes


#1

Some interesting boxes:

Turkish box for cartridges headstamped F.TC.I 403:

FNM for Century Arms:


#2

I love the Turkish box. That is not a common headstamp.


#3

Jon, do you have any recent 7.63 mm Mauser cartridges or boxes by Turkish MKE? An order was placed in 1999 for the production of 25.000 cartridges of this caliber and 100.000 of 7.62 mm Nagant.


#4

I don’t think so. My most recent Turkish 7.63s have T.C F A A and TC F S A headstamps.


#5

Fede - the Turkish box is fabulous. I have a similar but not identical box for .25 auto, headstamp F TC I.

It seems to answer the old question of the real meaning of “F.I.” on these headstamps. Common knowledge has said it stood for “Fabrikilar Iskanderun,” but I have always felt that was wrong. I could find no connection for any factory at Iskanderun, Turkish Republic, with the F TC I cartridges, most of which were made in Belgium, France or Germany. It seems from your label that it stands for “Fisekleri Inhasari,” which I cannot translate exactly from my only Turkish-English Dictionary. Can someone translate it for us?

What a great find. I wonder if there has been some release of old Turkish ammunition? I just got my 6.35 mm (.25 ACP) box last year, purchased in Europe for a fairly low price considering its interest and previous scarcity (in fact, I have never seen another or a picture of boxes of this general style in any caliber, until I got my .25 box and now these great pictures of the Mauser box).


#6

I don’t know a word of Turkish, but old standby, Google Translate, says it means “Exclusive (or exclusionary or monopolistic) Flares (or cartridges).” Maybe a name for a Turkish pyrotechnics company that also loads ammunition?


#7

The order was done by "Monopoles Turcs"
The delivery location was : CIF in Istanbul
JP


#8

Dennis - for those words, the best translation I can come up with for that whole circle of words is
"Cartridges exclusively for hunting, et cetera, Revolvers." Not knowing the order that nouns, verbs,
and adjectives are placed in within the Turkish Language is a disadvantage. Keep in mind also, that
early on in the history of auto pistol cartridges, and even later in some countries, “Revolver” was
pretty much used as we would use “handgun” or “pistol” today. Many of us differentiate in speech between
a revolver and a pistol, but years ago, when semi-autos first came on the scene, they were often referred
to as revolvers.


#9

I looked on several on-line Turkish-English dictionaries for “Rovelver” and nothing came up. I thought it might be “revolver” but couldn’t verify that. If that is the translation, I can’t see why F I (at least if it stood for "Fisekleri Inhisar) would be on the headstamps, as it’s not like a manufacturer’s initials.


#10

I told you the delivery place was Istanbul, not Iskanderun
CIF is an incoterm term (like FOB, CFR and so on)
JP


#11

The way these words are displayed in the box do not exactly reflect how this company was designated. I have seen documents reflecting different writings and orders in which these words were arranged. For example: “T. C. Revolver ve Av Fişekleri İnhisarı” or “Av ve Revolver Fişekleri İnhisarı”, but I have never seen a reference to “Fişekleri İnhisarı Av ve Revolver” (a separation symbol “+” can be noted after “İnhisarı”). Also note that the first letter in “İnhisarı” is a dotted capital “İ” and the last is a dotless lower case “ı” (both are used in turkish latin alphabet). The term “Rovelver” is sometimes used instead of “Revolver”.

I believe that the best translation should be “Monopoly of Hunting and Revolver Cartridges” or "“Monopoly of Revolver and Hunting Cartridges”. Textual “Revolvers and Hunting Cartridges Monopoly” doesn’t sound correct.

Here you can download a Turkish-English “International Firearms Glossary” that sometimes can be useful:

sendspace.com/file/srd4vd


#12

Hello Jean-Pierre,

Do you have a document showing an specific order for this cartridge? It would be great to if you can post it here.


#13

[quote=“JohnMoss”]
What a great find. I wonder if there has been some release of old Turkish ammunition?[/quote]

Could be. I read that Turkey does not play by the UN rules that are imposed for surplus firearms. Unlike any “Western” country who today would destory something with resale value exactly as the UN asked, Turkey has apparently released alot of surplus rifles onto the market recently.

I am not sure of the accuracy of this, but it could be true. I can’t remember where I heard it now.


#14

It occurred to me when I was researching this that the Turkish legend might have meant something like “Ammunition Cartel.” Back in the Teddy Roosevelt era, there were many such industrial cartels in the US, in which one organization controlled manufacture, distribution, and sales of various products. Most notable was John D. Rockefeller’s “Standard Oil Company” which controlled almost all US domestic oil production and refining. There was indeed the US “Ammunition Manufacturer’s Association” which did the same for ammunition from 1890-1907. Maybe the Turks had something similar, as the word “İnhisarı” does have a monopolistic connotation.


#15

[quote=“Fede”]I believe that the best translation should be “Monopoly of Hunting and Revolver Cartridges” or "“Monopoly of Revolver and Hunting Cartridges”. Textual “Revolvers and Hunting Cartridges Monopoly” doesn’t sound correct.

[/quote]

the name in french is Monopoles Turcs (Turkish Monopolies in english)

I saw that on the different sfm orders

jp


#16

It looks like my assumption about the meaning of “F. I.” was wrong. I still don’t believe it stands for either
Fabrikalar Iskanderun OR Fabrikalar Istanbul. These cartridge were not made at a Turkish Factory, but rather with the F.T.C.I. headstamp, in several countries - Belgium, France and Germany.

Fede, would you venture a guess about the real meaning of it. It is time this question, which has been bantered about by some of us for almost forty years, got answered.


#17

John,

In my opinion the real meaning of “F. I.” is “Fişekleri İnhisarı” which translates as “Cartridges Monopoly”. The Turkish state monopoly for the “manufacture” of ammunition was created in 1925 and then leased to a private company, in which the treasury held a 50% share, and French interests held almost all the rest.


#18

Fede - I agree. That works very well. The dominant character os these headstamps, although in the center, is certainly the intertwined letters “T.C.” standing for Türkiye Cumhuriyeti, the preferred Western Alphabet spelling for Turkish Republic in the Turkish language, as given to me by the Vice Consul of the Turkish Consulate at Los Angeles, California. You will see other spellings.

Like many Monograms that have key letters centered, I would translate the headstamps, therefore, as Turkish Republic Ammunition (or “Cartridges”) Monopoly, which refers to an Agency rather than a factory, and therefore makes sense for these non-Turkish made cartridges.

Unless documentation to the contrary is found, I accept this as the true meaning of these letters. It is for others to do as they please regarding them, of course.


#19

Wow, lot of good info in this thread. Thanks from a lurker!


#20

Similar distribution of characters can be observed in typical Turkish Mauser rifles (i.e. “Türkiye Cumhuriyeti” and “Askerî Fabrikalar”).