7.63 x 25mm Nr. 403 DWM Berlin-Borsigwalde Box


#1

Recently picked up this 7.63 x 25mm box by DWM (full, a bit tattered but the price was right).

Box top:

Left box end and right box end:
IMG_1538
IMG_1510

Box contents:

Representative cartridge from box and headstamp:
IMG_1518
1529a1

These steel cased 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridges made by DWM were briefly discussed previously here on the forum: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4341&view=previous

So is this a WW2 era box and are the contents correct for this box?

If this was intended for police use (during WW2, Europe) as speculated in earlier discussion here on the forum why would the label have the place of origin in English i.e. “Made in Germany” ?

Any input or information would be appreciated.

Brian


DWM 7.65 66 round boxes
#2

Brian: I have seen German language books published in Germany in this period and clearly for the domestic market which included the phrase “made in Germany” on (as librarians say) the title page verso. Jack


#3

This is not my subject at all but to what I have seen and been told these were for export to Spain or Portugal.
The domestic market in 1940/1941 was certainly (almost) non existing.


#4

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I think there were a good number of weapons chambered in 7.63 in SS service that early in the war. And if I recall correctly, much of their ammunition supply came via commercial contracts.


#5

I am still not supposed to talk much about but by now I have never seen any ammunition made for domestic use featuring the English “Made in Germany”. In particular during wartime this would have been odd not to mention it being used by armed branches of the German military.
I would rather address the known FN production to SS use.
Are there any reliable figures on how many weapons chambered in 7.63mm were used by the SS? And which ones besides the C-96? As per images around in publications it seems there were not that many.


#6

No time right now to delve into any books, but weren’t there also a few non-Soviet 7.63 SMGs in European use during the 1930s? Any of these (possibly captured in Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc) could have been pressed into SS service.


#7

Actually none I know of but me saying this has no significance.


#8

Great box! Many thanks!!!

Lew


#9

I can add that a well documented user of Mauser pistols in 7.63 mm was the Luftwaffe, and you can find this caliber illustrated in the 1942 and 1944 editions of the vol. 10 of “Munitionsvorschrift für Fliegerbordwaffen” (see image below). Some books mention that about 7800 were issued to them in 1940 (coming from Army stocks).

Also, the Unceta y Cía. records indicates delivery of Astra Model 900 and 903 pistols to the Wehrmacht between 1940 and 1943.

Regarding the DWM Lüttich (FN) ammunition discussed before, it is worth mentioning that a 4000 round crate has a label marked “Pistolenpatronen Kal. 7.63 (handelsüblich)” (commercially available).

Regards,

Fede


#10

Fede, thanks, the “handelsüblich” does not mean “commercially available” but something like “most common commercial variant”, should mean they refered to FMJ lead core loads.


#11

Alex, thanks, I have a German dictionary for industrial products that defines this term as “commercial grade” or “commercially available”. Also, it is given as a synonym for “im Handel erhältlich”, which is also translated as “commercially available”.


#12

About three hours after my first post on this thread I recalled that I have a box of DWM/Berlin-Borsigwalde 7.65 m/m Browning cartridges in a box carrying the phrase “Made in Germany.” The cartridges are steel case, and the boxes are the 25-round type. I also have the original 10-box carton this box came in, with a “Lackiert” overstamp but no “Made in Germany” mention. I am pretty sure this ammo was made for domestic German police use, as the individual boxes have multiple rubber-stamp date codes (as they seem to be) suggesting the boxes were returned with fired brass to DWM and then sent out again with new contents. I am also fairly sure this carton and its boxes were brought to the U.S. at the end of WW.2 by a returning American serviceman. Jack


#13

I can only say that between 1-9-1939 and 31-09-1941 1,5 Million 7,63 Mauser rounds were produced for the German forces.

Rgds


#14

All that I can say is that an identical steel case was found on a IIWW battlefield were SS troops fought against some partizans ca. 1944