7.63mm Mauser Stripper Clip ID

I just received a box of 20 7.63mm Mauser rounds with no marking on the box to indicate the manufacturer. The stripper clips are marked simply “F.J.”! The cartridges have a Rheinmetall commercial headstamp.

Who is the clip manufacturer “F.J.” and when were they in business???

Any information would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew

Lew,

As far as I know the identity of “FJ” is one of the abiding clip questions. As well as the 10 round pistol ones the same marking is also seen on 6,5x54 MS and 7,9x57 chargers.

Can anyone solve the mystery ?

Pete

Pete,
I knew you would have information for me, even if it is “I don’t know!”

If it is any help, the cases and the ammo is probably pre-WWI, but I am no expert on 7.63 M ammo. The box has a wood finish tissue paper over the brown cardboard. The box is strange,
image
lacking any indication of who made it. It may not even be made by Rheinmetall, but only used Rheinmetall cases.

Does anyone have pre-WWI or even immediately post-WWI 7.63 M specimens and/or boxes? I am interested in knowing when they began producing 7.63M and if they produced this caliber in the years immediately after WWI. It is possible that they produced this from prewar residue cases and the label was because it wasn’t clear if this production was legal immediately post WWI.

I thought identifying “F.J.” would help me identify the ammo. Perhaps the ammo can help identify FJ! Seems to me they must have been German and perhaps prewar. Do their clips show up on military 7.9x57 or only commercial???

Thanks again Pete!

Lew

Thanks Pete!

Lew,

Here’s a 7,9x57 charger with the FJ marking, what’s interesting about this one is that it has the holes at the ends of the springs, a feature generally seen only on early production, possible pre-1914.

I also have this mark stamped inside a cartouche as well as on 7,9x57 chargers with only 2 lugs per side. The identity of FJ was something that Phil Butler and I tried to tease out as he had one of their chargers that was slightly longer than a 7,9x57 one and only had two closely spaced lugs per side … but we weren’t able to come to any conclusion.

Pete

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I hope nobody minds if I use one of Phil Butler’s pictures here, if there is a problem I’ll delete it straight away. The bottom charger with the red paint is the odd one out.

Pete

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F.J. is also for me a still unknown WW1 clip manufacturer.

Rgds

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Can any of these FJ clips connected to a matching cartridge???

Clips are not high tech! I suspect that Rheinmetall in Sömmerda very likely bought clips from a local source!

I am pretty confident that my R.M. * S. * hst rounds are original to these clips. Still it would be interesting if other clips could be linked to Rheinmetall.

Great posts, Thanks!

Lew

PS:I will post images of these clips in the near future.I am restoring the box that has a couple of wear problems. The clipped rounds are serving as weighs until the glue sets.

Cheers,
Lew

Chasing around at random on the internet, I found the following associated with a book on Shotguns (I think)

Foss Bros . … Gun maker located in Sommerda , Germany 1922 to 1947.

Is there some German word that would make Foss Bros into FJ??? Perhaps Junge???
Lew

Lew, certainly not “Junge” (boy).
I wonder what the full name of the company was.
Maybe “Foss Jagdwaffen” (Foss Hunting Guns)? But this is only wild guessing without any substance.

Hm, I guess the term “Foss Jagd(waffen)” sounds like a gun dealer or gun smith. Neither would be set up to make clips by the many thousands.

Thanks guys,

You have cleverly realized that I am totally out of my depth here!

Appreciate you taking the time to let me know that the straw I was grasping for is not really there…

Cheers,
Lew

Hans, I agree. Though we saw much weirder company names which really gave no clue on the true products they made.
I remember a chocolate factory in Russia…

Lew, I can’t offer any help with the cartridges that would have come with this clip … due to the botherations involved with collecting live ammunition here in the UK I save my energies by only looking for tin-ware (*)

Keep up the good work !!

Pete

(*) … and the occasional Morse key

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Just to get all the info in one place, below are images of the clip loaded and two views empty. To ;me, this clip[ looks identical to the clip Pete posted directly above.

Thanks for all the information!

I am not into stripper clips. But from the “Liste der Fertigunsgkennzeichen” of WW2, a quick and dirty program found the followig “F. J.” candidates. There are only two, compared to many more JF hits:
bth — Frühwald & Jäger Eisen- und Presswerk, Nürnberg
ftc — Frost & Jähnel, Breslau

If F.J. went out of business after WW1, this is of no help. But if codes “bth” or “ftc” appear on WW2 stripper clips, it could be the same company as F.J. from WW1.

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Brilliant!!!

This is exactly what I was hoping for. It is a lead with some substance.

Well Done…

Lew

From memory, John Walter mentions them in one of his books, Frost & Jähnel were leatherworkers, all my printed references are still packed away, does anyone have his P’08 or German weapons books to hand ?

I’ve not seen mention of either of those two codes being noted on cartridge clips.

Pete

Pete
You are correct! Frost & Jähnel made leather gear. Some examples on the net:
https://fjm44.com/articles/m31-breadbag-heer-frost-jahnel-breslau-1940/
[Pre war P08 Luger holster Frost & Jahnel Breslau 1938 – fjm44](http://Pre war P08 Luger holster Frost & Jahnel Breslau 1938 – fjm44)
Identification on a flare pouch:
image

There is a Frühwald & Jäger iron and press works,in Nürnberg sounds more promising but I could find nothing useful on them! Perhaps someone who does better on the net than I do will have more success.

Cheers,
Lew

Just a small reminder that in the german language the I and J can be used as the same letter.

So you may be looking at an F.I. or F.J.

I checked and the only two hits found were
cg — Finower Industrie GmbH
jda — Ferdinand Indruch, Troppau/Sudetenland
The first, a re-armament factory owned by Hirsch Kupfer & Messing, did not exist in WW1.
The second is in WW1 Austria.