7.65 belgian Mauser clips and others


#1
  1. The usual 7.65 belgian Mauser clips are two pieces clips
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    They have two long dots on each side (6 mm width) and the space between them is 18.5 mm.
    The outside width of the clip is 14.5 mm
    and the length is 60.5 mm.
    Right ?

  2. I have : DM, H, no hstp, FR
    Who is H ?
    Who is no hstp ?
    Who is FCR ?
    Who is FR ?

  3. There is another model, for Argentina. It is the model 1909 if I remember well.two pieces clips
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    no dot on the sides
    outside width : 13.40
    length 60.5 mm
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    I have MMAP B and FMC SL
    Who is MMAP B ?
    Who is FMC SL ?

  4. There is another model for Argentina, called Model 1891
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel, very flat
    no dot on the sides
    outside width 13.40
    length 60 mm
    no hstp.
    who made it ?

  5. and the last one for argentina is model Puorto Borgi
    one piece clip, brass made, no hstp
    two small dots on each side
    length 6.5 mm
    width 14.5 mm
    who did manufacture it ?

thanks
JP


#2

[quote=“jean-pierre”]1) The usual 7.65 belgian Mauser clips are two pieces clips
Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
They have two long dots on each side (6 mm width) and the space between them is 18.5 mm.
The outside width of the clip is 14.5 mm
and the length is 60.5 mm.
Right ?

  1. I have : DM, H, no hstp, FR
    Who is H ? re
    Who is no hstp ?
    Who is FCR ?
    Who is FR ?

  2. There is another model, for Argentina. It is the model 1909 if I remember well.two pieces clips
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    no dot on the sides
    outside width : 13.40
    length 60.5 mm
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    I have MMAP B and FMC SL
    Who is MMAP B ?
    Who is FMC SL ?

  3. There is another model for Argentina, called Model 1891
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel, very flat
    no dot on the sides
    outside width 13.40
    length 60 mm
    no hstp.
    who made it ?

  4. and the last one for argentina is model Puorto Borgi
    one piece clip, brass made, no hstp
    two small dots on each side
    length 6.5 mm
    width 14.5 mm
    who did manufacture it ?

thanks
JP[/quote]

  1. I have : DM, H, no hstp, FR
    Who is H ? re HIRTEMBERGER
    Who is no hstp ?
    Who is FCR ?
    Who is FR ?

  2. There is another model, for Argentina. It is the model 1909 if I remember well.two pieces clips
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    no dot on the sides
    outside width : 13.40
    length 60.5 mm
    Outside nickel steel, inside nickel steel
    I have MMAP B and FMC SL
    Who is MMAP B ? FMMAP B = FABRICA MILITAR DE MUNICIONES Y ARMAS PORTATILES BORGHI (Borghi Small Arms and Ammunitions Military Factory)
    Who is FMC SL ?
    FMC SL = FABRICA MILITAR DE CARTUCHOS SAN LORENZO (San Lorenzo Cartridges Military Factory).

  3. and the last one for argentina is model Puorto Borgi
    one piece clip, brass made, no hstp
    two small dots on each side
    length 6.5 mm
    width 14.5 mm
    who did manufacture it ? PUERTO BORGHI.

PUERTO BORGHI, SAN LORENZO, FMMAP B, AND FRAY LUIS BELTRAN, ARE THE NAMES OF THE SAME FACTORY ACROSS THE YEARS, PUERTO BORGHI IS THE NAME OF THE PORT OF THE FACTORY, SAN LORENZO THE TOWN WHERE IS LOCATED, AND FRAY LUIS BELTRAN IS THE NAME OF A PRIEST WHO ORGANIZED THE ORDENANCE AND LOGISTICS DURING ARGENTINA


#3

The first type of clips for both Belgian and Argentine Mauser 7,65 cartridges is a skimpy two piece item without sidewall lugs and any form of reinforcement on the base of the clip. I’ve only ever seen one of these marked and that was with a very faint ‘Kynoch’ but I wasn’t able to persuade the owner to part with it. This one is typical of early production, have very small spring retaining tabs and a very square section to the channel:

The later type of 7,65 clip has reinforcing grooves along the base of the clip but still didn’t have any sidewall lugs.

By the way, does anyone know what the bottom of this type of clip rested on in the rifle receiver to stop the clip from being forced into the magazine along with the cartridges? This is normally the function of the sidewall lugs which this type of clip doesn’t have.

The first type of clip you mention, 14,5mm wide and 60,5mm long sounds like the one made for 7x57 cartridges, especially as they are marked ‘FCR’ and ‘FR’. Just to confuse matters though I have later ones with a different type of sidewall flange, marked ‘FR’ which will only fit 30-06 cartridges. ‘FR’ stands for Fabrica do Realgo of Brazil. Does it look like this one?

Happy collecting, Peter


#4

Thank you very much for the explanation

If I understand well

  1. 14.5 x 60.5 (two long dots or two small ones) is for 7 mm Mauser
  2. 13.40 x 60.5 (no sidewall or one small one) is for 7.65 Mauser

Is it right ?

JP


#5

Jean-Pierre –

The three original Mauser-type chargers can be most readily identified by their width (here taken from DWM drawings), and the presence and arrangement of their sidewall lugs:

The 7.65 Mauser chargers (M.89 for Belgium, Turkey and Argentina; M.03 for Turkey and M.09 for Argentina) all have a width of 13,4+0.1mm, and are all quite distinctive, the M.03 Turkish being the only one with sidewall lugs, two closely opposed ones per side.

The 7x57 Mauser charger has a width of 14.55


#6

thank you
jp


#7

[quote=“jean-pierre”]thank you
jp[/quote]

Tomorrow monday I will ask Fede Graziano (AACAMs expert) for more info, my field is 9mms and I have litlle knowlegde on clips.


#8

Jean-Pierre and DGFM


#9

Peter: the original M1889-90-91 Mauser clip without side lugs was stopped by the inner siderails of the receiver. Since these rifles had single column magazines the siderails were wide enough to stop the clip at the correct point & allow the ctgs to be stripped off. The magazine well opening on the typical Mauser of models 1893 and later is wider since they had staggered magazines. In these rifles some other means to stop the clip had to be devised, hence the side lugs. JGi


#10

Here are some pictures .

  1. The 7.65 Mauser chargers (M.89 for Belgium, Turkey and Argentina; M.03 for Turkey and M.09 for Argentina) all have a width of 13,4+0.1mm, and are all quite distinctive, the M.03 Turkish being the only one with sidewall lugs, two closely opposed ones per side.

These ones must be that

  1. The 7x57 Mauser charger has a width of 14.55

#11

Jean-Pierre


#12

Jean-Pierre


#13

[quote=“JJE”]Jean-Pierre


#14

Jean-Pierre


#15

I don’t remember.
As I say I don’t remember to have ever found such new staff (after WWII) in France.
Perhaps I found a few ones in the states, but only a few.
I will take measurements of each clip carefully and post them.
Thanks
JP