7.7 japanese odd rounds

I HAVE BEEN GOING THRU MY GARAGE AND HAVE FOUND QUITE A FEW ROUNDS THAT BAFFLE ME. THESE ARE BOTH 7.7 JAP ROUNDS THE FIRST IS A RIMLESS RIFLE ROUND WITH A SMALL BIT OF LEAD ON THE NOSE OF THE BULLET THE OTHER IS A FLAT POINT WITH BLACK SEALANT AROUND HE CASE MOUTH. I CAN SEE NO COLORED SEALANT AROUND EITHER PRIMER. WHAT I HAVE HERE IS A TOTAL MYSTERY TO ME.




Not sure about the 1st picture… maybe a reload?

The second (with flat tip) looks like an Incendiary round (type 3)

I am sure the smarter of us will pipe up and correct me… :D

DOESN’T APPEAR TO BE A RELOAD THE CASE MOUTH CRIMPS LOOK INTACT.

I believe the flat tip round is actually HE, a fairly scarce character. I would have to agree on reload for the round nose round, but of course, anything is possible.

Definitely a rimless round and not semi-rimmed? The flat-tipped bullet and dark purple casemouth seal look very much like the explosive Type Ma101 Incendiary but this would only be found in a semi-rimmed case. According to Ken Elk’s book on Japanese ammunition there was no flat-tipped loading in the rimless case type.

Also, be sure that the flat-tip round is not a 7.9 x 57 mm Mauser. They are “so Japanese” that sometimes people
just assume, without even a close look or measurement, that they are 7.7. The Mauser rounds in this type are
relatively (note that I said “relatively”) common. Back before they were illegal in California, I had five or six rounds
of the 7.9 x 57 go through my hands, and I don’t recall every having one of the 7.7 SR in this loading. Of course, I
didn’t collect that caliber, but if one had been offered to me in trade, or cheap, I would have acquired it for my trade
stuff.

BOTH ARE 7.7 JAP THE FLAT POINT IS SEMI RIM WITH BLACK SEALANT AROUND THE CASE NECK.

It is hard to see in the photo but does the first one look like the tip has been ground down with a grinder or file?
Taking the tip off and round nosing with a grinder is a common way to ‘sporterise’ FMJ military ammo for hunting.

YOU MAY BE RIGHT THERE ARE SOME FAINT TOOL MARKS NEAR THE TIP IF SO SOMEONE WENT TO A WHOLE LOT OF TROUBLE DOING IT.