7.8x53?


#1

I got a new round today that I can’t positively ID. I have an idea, but it doesn’t quite fit.
CNCS flat-tip hollow-base bullet, brass case and domed primer, segmented Georg Roth headstamp: GR / * / 1889 / * /
Bullet diam. 7.75mm/.305
" length 29.17mm/1.149
" weight 203.5grains
Case neck OD 8.58mm/.338
" shoulder diam. 10.7mm/.421
" head diam. 11.34mm/.447
" rim diam. 11.23mm/.442
" length 53.05mm/2.089
" rim to shoulder 41.33mm/1.628
Any help greatly appreciated.


#2

No thoughts?
The closest I come to is an 8x53 Hebler-Lorenz.
Can anyone confirm that diagnosis?


#3

[quote=“Jon C.”]I got a new round today that I can’t positively ID. I have an idea, but it doesn’t quite fit.
CNCS flat-tip hollow-base bullet, brass case and domed primer, segmented Georg Roth headstamp: GR / * / 1889 / * /
Bullet diam. 7.75mm/.305
" length 29.17mm/1.149
" weight 203.5grains
Case neck OD 8.58mm/.338
" shoulder diam. 10.7mm/.421
" head diam. 11.34mm/.447
" rim diam. 11.23mm/.442
" length 53.05mm/2.089
" rim to shoulder 41.33mm/1.628
Any help greatly appreciated.[/quote]

Jon, Datig, vol. 1, page 50, has the 8 X 53mm Hebler-Lorenz listed as having the bul. dia. at: .323 , the rim dia. at; .450 (.008 larger than your ctg., and a c/l of; 2.079 ( a mere .010 smaller than your specimen.) M. Rea


#4

Thanks, Mora. Yes, I have that and there are some differences. As I said, it’s close but not quite on. I went through many of my sources, and I can’t find anything closer.
I hope someone has better sources.


#5

In a short paragraph of his great book Josef M


#6

I am going right now to check my Motz book.


#7

Hin Jon,

        This are correct measurement tolerances for the 7,5 x 53 mm Hebler Experimental (George Roth Number 237) from 1887:

C.L. B.L. N.L. R.D. H.D.
52,80-53,04 40,70-40,95 8,20-8,58 11,35-11,43 11,30-11,35

S.D. N.D. B.D.
10,80-10,83 8,51-8,63 7,88-7,97

  • Datig’s bullet diameter (.323") is wrong.
  • Headstamps: GR / * / 1887 / * /, GR / * / 1889 / * / and LORENZ KARLSRUHE (no case number identified).

This are basic measurements for the 7,8 x 53 mm Roth Experimental from 1890 - GR 369

C.L. B.L. N.L. R.D. H.D. S.D. N.D. B.D.
53,00 41,20 9,00 11,40 11,40 10,80 8,60 7,80
Headstamp GR / * / * / * /

         I realized that you missed the neck lenght. Maybe you can get a little closer with this information. ...... Fede.

#8

Strakv, I could not find those cartridges in my Motz, please tell me the correct pages.

Fede, thank you for the info. If I may ask, what is your source? The neck length is 9.07mm/.357.


#9

It’s on the page 419 of volume II.

Regards,
Vince


#10

Thanks, I was looking in Volume 1.

Ugh, it’s in the all-German part. I’ll give it to my friend the German teacher and see if he can help.


#11

Use Google translator at http://www.google.com/translate_t

Regards,
Vince