7.9 German beauties


#1

Tell me which small arms cartridges are more colorfull than these.


#2

These!!!

Dutch


#3

Dutch: What are the bullet types, case materials and headstamps of the 6 on the right of your photo?


#4

From left to right.

Spr. brass case P154 S* 12 37. primer 30
S, Alu case WW1 no H.S.
SmK Leuchtspur


#5

Well, not all of these beauties are German, but I think they’re cute.

Left to right: All 7.9 x 57mm Mauser (sort of).

Spanish experimental CETME

Czech yellow wood bullet short range - these are not blanks - try a magnet on one!

Czech dummy round - very fancy - don’t know the purpose. Bullet and base are bright brass, with the remainder of the cartridge case chromed.

Hee Hee! You guys figure this one out. I know what it is, but not its exact origin.

Scarce German copper-washed steel WWII era Grenade Blank German Green-case Nahpatrone (silencer cartridge) Solid Steel gauge - deep groove around neck just about shoulder - marking etched on side. Rare with full-bullet profile Multi-country experimental plastic round WWII.

German experiment but probably done in France and I believe the special bullet, which has no cannelure, to be of FN manufacture. I could be wrong about it, but it sure looks that way. This, in essence, is not a legitimate cartridge. It was assembled from real components simply to show the application. Base is aluminum, but steel and brass bases are known as well, with a variety of threads, so not all components interchange.

Experimental German Panzerpatrone. Identical cartridge, also with P25 headstamp, shown in Windicsch’s book on 7.9s.

German NPE electric-primed aluminum case. The base is flat like a rimfire.

German experimental aluminum case, P151 code.

German Model 1888 aluminumcased ball round, steel base, POLTE MAGDEBURG is the headstamp.

These run from the sublime to the ridiculous - Most scarce to rare, some not. all pretty!

John Moss


#6

Your #4 looks like the inside


#7

[quote=“Dutch”]Your #4 looks like the inside


#8

[quote=“Dutch”]These!!!

Dutch[/quote]

NICE!


#9

[quote=“Jones”]

Well, not all of these beauties are German, but I think they’re cute.

Left to right: All 7.9 x 57mm Mauser (sort of).

Spanish experimental CETME

Czech yellow wood bullet short range - these are not blanks - try a magnet on one!

Czech dummy round - very fancy - don’t know the purpose. Bullet and base are bright brass, with the remainder of the cartridge case chromed.

Hee Hee! You guys figure this one out. I know what it is, but not its exact origin.

Scarce German copper-washed steel WWII era Grenade Blank German Green-case Nahpatrone (silencer cartridge) Solid Steel gauge - deep groove around neck just about shoulder - marking etched on side. Rare with full-bullet profile Multi-country experimental plastic round WWII.

German experiment but probably done in France and I believe the special bullet, which has no cannelure, to be of FN manufacture. I could be wrong about it, but it sure looks that way. This, in essence, is not a legitimate cartridge. It was assembled from real components simply to show the application. Base is aluminum, but steel and brass bases are known as well, with a variety of threads, so not all components interchange.

Experimental German Panzerpatrone. Identical cartridge, also with P25 headstamp, shown in Windicsch’s book on 7.9s.

German NPE electric-primed aluminum case. The base is flat like a rimfire.

German experimental aluminum case, P151 code.

German Model 1888 aluminumcased ball round, steel base, POLTE MAGDEBURG is the headstamp.

These run from the sublime to the ridiculous - Most scarce to rare, some not. all pretty!

John Moss[/quote]

Some respectable beauties as well.


#10

Gentlemen - thank you for IDing the drum my feeder cartridge came out of. I knew what it was, but wasn’t sure which German drum-type it came out of. I have one in steel as well, although quite pitted (I don’t think they usually tear apart these drums to get these “cartridges” unless they are in bad condition. the one I pictured is the best condition I have ever had a chace at). I also have another slight variation on the aluminum one.

Dutch: I will try to get a picture posted of the headstamp of the P151 and perhaps the Polte aluminum Mod. 88, since not everyone has seen that headstamp. I will throw in the electric-primed aluminum case so folks can see what the base looks like. Don’t know when it will get posted. I will scan it soon.


#11

Left to Right:

Polte Magdeburg Model 1888 aluminum-case, steel-base

P151 (Rheinisch-Westf


#12

I am sorry the headstamps in the pictures aren’t easier to read. I simply will not enhance them with any coloring on cartridges of this quality, or anything out of my collection that I don’t have in duplicate, since I cleaned white-out from one once and lost half the primer seal in the process, on a single specimen from my collection. It is not a question of whether I did it right or wrong - I admit that I am as poor with things like that as I am on computers - but it happened, and could happen again, so I made it a hard, fast rule. If I had a camera and used the proper lighting, these would have been much better, but I don’t and at my age will probably never bother to get one. I am sure someone better at Photo Shop than I am could have done better as well, as I think potentially a scan probably works as good as a digital camera.

Of course, the electric primed one doesn’t have any headstamp, and the little bump (very, very slight) in the center that shows in the picture is accurate - it is there. The P151 has no flash hole. That is just reflection in the blind primer pocket, which is quite small, as you can see, and probably was not intended to hold a primer. I suspect this was made for some other kind of testing than firing, but don’t know that. and yes, the entry where the date would normally be is blank, not just faded out of the photograph.

The little entries before and after the word “Polte” on the Model 88 are little , stylized 4 pointed stars (not a typo - 4 points).


#13

[quote]
From left to right.

Spr. brass case P154 S* 12 37. primer 30
S, Alu case WW1 no H.S.
SmK Leuchtspur


#14

[quote=“Jones”]

German experiment but probably done in France and I believe the special bullet, which has no cannelure, to be of FN manufacture. I could be wrong about it, but it sure looks that way. This, in essence, is not a legitimate cartridge. It was assembled from real components simply to show the application. Base is aluminum, but steel and brass bases are known as well, with a variety of threads, so not all components interchange.

I was the guy who found these rounds about 20 years ago.
I wrote 2 articles in ICCA newspaper.
About seven different colors and case shapes are existing.
The bullet is FN and these rounds were manufactured and tested in France during WWII.
The cartridge you show was assembled from new components, you are right.
But in the bunch of ctges were also complete fired ctges (base attached to the case). And even crusher fired rounds.
All the fired ctges were with a steel or brass base.
I didn’t find any Aluminium fired base.
You have two types only of threads. The one for brass and steel base, and another one for Aluminium base.
JP


#15

Thanks for the clarification, Jean-Pierre. I have your articles, of course, but I am too old to run up and down my stairs for each piece of information. I wish my library was upstairs with my office, but I have no room to have them both in one room.

I agree that the bullets are FN. They simply have the absolute identical look of the FN type sS bullet except for not having a cannelure, which of course, is not useful with the plastic cases, that pretty much must have a friction fit for the projectile.

I wasn’t aware that no fired aluminum bases were found, but certainly mine is brand new condition. I got all of my specimens from you, by the way. It seems like yesterday, but now, it was a lot of years ago.

I guess we should mention here that there are variations in the plastic cases as well.

Thnaks for adding to the story here on the Forum for all of us.


#16

[quote=“JohnMoss”]I am sorry the headstamps in the pictures aren’t easier to read. I simply will not enhance them with any coloring on cartridges of this quality, or anything out of my collection that I don’t have in duplicate, since I cleaned white-out from one once and lost half the primer seal in the process, on a single specimen from my collection. It is not a question of whether I did it right or wrong - I admit that I am as poor with things like that as I am on computers - but it happened, and could happen again, so I made it a hard, fast rule. If I had a camera and used the proper lighting, these would have been much better, but I don’t and at my age will probably never bother to get one. I am sure someone better at Photo Shop than I am could have done better as well, as I think potentially a scan probably works as good as a digital camera.

Of course, the electric primed one doesn’t have any headstamp, and the little bump (very, very slight) in the center that shows in the picture is accurate - it is there. The P151 has no flash hole. That is just reflection in the blind primer pocket, which is quite small, as you can see, and probably was not intended to hold a primer. I suspect this was made for some other kind of testing than firing, but don’t know that. and yes, the entry where the date would normally be is blank, not just faded out of the photograph.

The little entries before and after the word “Polte” on the Model 88 are little , stylized 4 pointed stars (not a typo - 4 points).[/quote]

Very fine , rare and important items. thanks for posting.


#17

[quote=“Jones”]

Well, not all of these beauties are German, but I think they’re cute.

Left to right: All 7.9 x 57mm Mauser (sort of).

Spanish experimental CETME

Czech yellow wood bullet short range - these are not blanks - try a magnet on one!

Czech dummy round - very fancy - don’t know the purpose. Bullet and base are bright brass, with the remainder of the cartridge case chromed.

Hee Hee! You guys figure this one out. I know what it is, but not its exact origin.

Scarce German copper-washed steel WWII era Grenade Blank German Green-case Nahpatrone (silencer cartridge) Solid Steel gauge - deep groove around neck just about shoulder - marking etched on side. Rare with full-bullet profile Multi-country experimental plastic round WWII.

German experiment but probably done in France and I believe the special bullet, which has no cannelure, to be of FN manufacture. I could be wrong about it, but it sure looks that way. This, in essence, is not a legitimate cartridge. It was assembled from real components simply to show the application. Base is aluminum, but steel and brass bases are known as well, with a variety of threads, so not all components interchange.

Experimental German Panzerpatrone. Identical cartridge, also with P25 headstamp, shown in Windicsch’s book on 7.9s.

German NPE electric-primed aluminum case. The base is flat like a rimfire.

German experimental aluminum case, P151 code.

German Model 1888 aluminumcased ball round, steel base, POLTE MAGDEBURG is the headstamp.

These run from the sublime to the ridiculous - Most scarce to rare, some not. all pretty!

John Moss[/quote]

NOW TELL ME THAT THE 7.9X57 IS NOT THE KING OF METRIC RIFLE AND LIGHT MG CARTRIDGE !