7.9 German Headstamps Question

I have two fired 7.9mm German cases on which has been written ‘rare headstamp’. Can anyone confirm that they are hard to find. Thanks in advance.

The left one is the original form of the German 7.9 mm ammunition, designated Patrone 88 with a 14.7 g round nose bullet. Its also the first variation of the Patronenhülse 88 cartridge case, which later underwent serveral changes.
The L stands for Wilhelm Lorenz, who owned Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik, Karlsruhe (headstamp DM used from December 1893 onwards) which later became Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik, DWM.
The case on the right is from illegal military production after WW1. Polte was the only authorized manufacturer. So illegal production used Polte’s P with the second letter taken from the real name: Pö = Böhme, Pi = Hirtenberger, Pu = Burgsmüller and Ps used for Swedish production. The history of Böhme at Treuenbrietzen (Sebaldushof) is still unclear to me. In any case, this company was taken over by the Kopp brothers of Berlin, who later went on to erect a second factory in Treuenbrietzen (Selterhof) and others in Belzig (Roederhof), Metgethen and Salzwedel.
The S in the headstamp indicates it is a case for the pointed S bullet, standardized in 1903, which had a slightly larger diameter than the round nose bullet 88, while rifle bore dimensions remainded unchanged.
Regarding rarity of these headstamps, I am out of my depth, but others will chime in.

Having collected 7.9 x 57 in a rather big way, I can say that
I would describe the “L” headstamp as fairly scarce and the
“Po” headstamp as very scarce.

Just my opinion.

John M.

Thank you both for your very helpful replies. Ian

Here the box for a Pö cartridge.

451kr.

Hi

They are not common like other HS, but you can complete a nice collection :-)

MAUSER   7,92X57  Burgsmüller Kreiensen-Harz 		

7 24 S Pü
10 24 S Pü
11 24 S Pü
12 24 S Pü
6 Pü S 25
9 Pü S 25
27 Pü S 4

Mauser 7,92x57   Böhme Treuenbrietzen 		

S Pö 10 24
S Pö 12 24
3 Pö S 25
6 Pö S 25
8 Pö S 25
10 Pö S 25
11 Pö S 25
1 Pö S 26

Mauser 7,92x57, Hirtenberg-Soloturn (Rheinmetall Mandl.)		

5 24 S Pi
8 24 S Pi
3 25 S Pi
7 25 S Pi

Lorenz

12         89		L
2          90		L
4          90		L
6          90		L
7          90		L
8          90		L
9          90		L
10         90		L
11         90		L
12         90		L
1          91		L
2          91		L
3          91		L
4          91		L
5          91		L
6          91		L
7          91		L
8          91		L
8          92		L
9    L     92		L

Rufus

What does “Treuenbrietzen” mean? Treuen means faithful but brietzen I have no idea.

Treuenbrietzen is the name of a small town south of Berlin.
Most of the secret small arms ammunition plants were located in rural small towns with a railway line nearby.

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http://www.treuenbrietzen.de/front_content.php

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I have a piece with headstamp “7 91 L” but it has a groove in the case.
I’ve never seen a slot in the case.
It is normal?

Hello Martin,
It’s a M88 blank’s case. At this time, blanks loads were identified like that.

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Martin, the “bullet” in your case does not look like being made of wood, as a blank should be. Possibly, someone has “stuffed” the case with a “bullet” that does not belong to it.

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Hi Rufus,
there is NO Pü…in headstamp, only Pu…without the 2 dots on top…
Only Pö has the 2 dots, as the maker was Böhme

Just to avoid mistakes by younger collectors later on…
sincerely
peter

Re-reading what Forensic refered to, I should have mentioned earlier that the manufacturer’s name is Burgsmüller (not Borgs…), located at Kreiensen in the Harz area (not Hartz). It was a rather large, well known business, dealing in everything connected with hunting, existing well into the 1970s.

For the collectors who are interested. Known head stamps.

Pi : Hirtenberg-Soloturn (Rheinmetall Mandl.)

Pi 5 24 S
Pi 6 24 S
Pi 8 24 S
Pi 11 24 S

Pi 3 25 S
Pi 3 25 S
Pi 7 25 S

Pu : Burgsmüller Kreiensen-Harz

Pu 7 24 S
Pu 10 24 S
Pu 11 24 S
Pu 12 24 S

Pu S 25 9

Pu S 4 27
Pu 4 27 S

Pö : Böhme Treuenbrietzen

Pö 7 24 S
Pö 10 24 S
Pö 12 24 S

Pö S 25 3
Pö S 25 6
Pö 7 25 S
Pö S 25 8
Pö S 25 9
Pö S 25 10
Pö S 25 11
Pö S 25 12

Pö S 26 1
Pö S 26 1
Pö S 26 8

L (DWM) : Lorenz, Karlsruhe

L 10 89
L 11 89
L 12 89

L 1 90
L 2 90
L 3 90
L 4 90
L 5 90
L 6 90
L 7 90
L 8 90
L 9 90
L 10 90
L 11 90
L 12 90

L 1 91
L 2 91
L 3 91
L 4 91
L 5 91
L 6 91
L 7 91
L 8 91

L 4 92
L 9 92

Rgds

Thanks Peter

A typographical error, of course Pu.
Only O has two dots.
Thanks for the correction :-)

Best

Rufus

Hi Willem

I have :

L 8 92
L 9 L 92

Pu S 25 6

Best

Rufus

Hi

I have already corrected, You are of course right. Letter errors.

Best

Rufus

Many thanks!!

Rgds