7,9 German Mauser


#1

Coming soon!!! (May 2010)

For not German reading persons, there is an additional English text available.

Rgds
Dutch


#2

Looks good.


#3

What machine gun is the depicted belt for? The german machine gun belts I know have their liks joined by a spiral wire.


#4

Hi,

this Belt is for the MG17


#5

Are those MG17 links the same as for the French AAT 52?


#6

und vhere iz it? und


#7

Would the MG 15, MG17, and MG81 all used the same links? Jack


#8

Jack,the MG15 is fed from a 75 round drum magazine, not a belt. JH


#9

The shown one should be the “Gurt 17/81” (desintegrating) for the MG 81.
The MG 17 used the “Gurt 17” which did not desintegrate.
The AA52 used links derived from “Gurt 17/81”.

JFL will enlighten us soon I hope.


#10

Hello,

here are some data concerning the German links for aircraft guns :

The MG17 is fed with a non-desintegrating belt both 250- and 500-round.
Connection between individual links is done by a pin. This belt has almost not fanwise flexibility.

Here is the early Gurt 17, later designated Gurt 17 a.A. (alte Art = old model):

Here is the late Gurt 17 n.A. (neue Art = new model) :

For the feeding of the MG81, a belt with enhanced fanwise flexibiliy was required. The corresponding belt is designated Gurt 17/81.
At least 6 different models have been identified.
Here are 5 different models :

The first model on top is non-desintegrating with the split-hook engaging the divided eye. All 4 other models are desintegrating.
The last model at bottom with solid hook is the standard model from 1943 on.

Indeed the French desintegrating links for the AA52 were derived from the last model of Gurt 17/81.
Here is a comparison of the last model of Gurt 17/81 on top and the earliest French link for AA52 at bottom. The main difference is the shape of the part which engages into the cartridge groove : for the German link it is a stamped circle, for the French link is recurved V-shaped.

For those interested in that subject, you might check my articles published in the US magazine “Small Arms Review” :

  • Vol. 8 n°2 , November 2004 : “Belts for MG17 and MG 81 aircraft machineguns”
  • Vol. 11 n°10 , July 2008 : “Belts for French AA52 machineguns”

Cheers

JFL


#11

I don’t know how I got to be this old without realizing the MG17 employed a nondistintegrating belt, but it does give an insight into the continued use in Germany of cloth belts (non-delinking, of course) in aircraft synchronized MGs in the first war. It suggests that in Germany there was an actual preference for this type belt in that application. Thanks for the clarification. Jack


#12

Would the German links work in the AA52 and vice versa?


#13

When a large amount of the 7.5 French ammo was imported some time back, there were lots of these French disintegrating links available. Rather than throw them away we found they would work in our Maxims that had been converted to use the German MG34/42 belts. There is no real advantage in them over the standard belts but it did show they were quite usable. I also linked up some 20 round segments and fired them without trouble in an MG34. So I would have to say they are usable in these German MG’s, though I do not know if the reverse would work. JH


#14

Hello,

The first French AA52 (~1952-1958) were fed with 50-round non-desintegrating belts very similar to those used by German MG 34/42.
At the end of the 1950’s when the French decided to go for desintegrating links they of course designed links that were interchangeable with the previous non-desintegrating belts. Therefore the pitch between two adjacent cartridges was kept at 17mm.

Cheers,

JF


#15

JFL: Some of the MG17 and MG81 links you pictured bear a circled R or a B (sometimes circled). Are these manufacturers’ identifiers? I notice the others carry the usual German producers’ codes of the second war era. Thanks, Jack


#16

Jack,

the markings R and B on the Gurt 17 are manufacturers’ markings used before the adoption in 1940 of the three-letters coding system.
R is Ruberg & Renner in Hagen.
B is Boehme & Co in Minden.

After 1940, the three-letters coding was used.
From October 1942 on, an extra letter in capital script was added to the three-letters code in order to give the date of production. This system began in October 1942 with the letter “A”, then “B” for November 1942, etc…

Cheers,

JFL


#17

JFL: Thanks much for the additional information. Jack


#18

[quote=“dutch”]Coming soon!!! (May 2010)

For not German reading persons, there is an additional English text available.

Rgds
Dutch[/quote]

The books looks good and I am sure that it is. Makes we sorry that I am no longer collecting.