7,9 Mauser


#1

On page 241 of the book “Die Militärpatronen Kaliber 7,9 mm ihre Vorläufer und Abarten” is also a picture of this 7,9 Mauser cartridge.
The picture of the book is from a round in the Woodin collection with the same head stamp, green annulus and the punch in the primer as the one I have.

Unfortunately I have no further information.
Perhaps somebody in our Forum knows more.

Any help is appreciated.

Dutch.



#2

Dutch - I had the identical round in my own collection. I thought you actually got it from me, but now don’t recall. It is a very weak firing pin strike, and I would not stand in front of the muzzle of a gun that it was tried again in.

As far as I know, it is one of a series leading to the Panzerpatrone.

Had it not been the same lot and date as the one in the Windisch book, I would have thought it might be a fake. I had another similar type, in fact more similar to the regular eej Panzerpatronen that this one is, headstamp only, as I recall, “P M.” I assumed that to be “Polte Magdeburg.” Note that in neither case was there a dot on the headstamp. Those are just sentence-ending periods in my typed text here, not part of the headstamp.

I have no other information on either one, except to tell you that I paid a lot for the P25-code round, but not much at all for the P M round, as I recall, or maybe it was the reverse.


#3

It is strange that the bullet is so long.
I what type of weapon was this cartridge used when it`s a original manufactured cartridge??
It would not fit in any magazine, you had to load this cartridge by hand. Also the neck crimp looks
strange to me but the picture is not to good.Also the green primer seal would not make sense.
Could it be a home make???


#4

451kr, Your comments make good sense if this were a production cartridge. If this is a development test item to validate the design concept of the bullet, then there are a number of reasons, like ease of fabrication of the test specimens, they may not bother about the overall length, much less the color of the pa.

There are a lot of options between a full production item and being “home made”.

I will leave any specific comments to the experts on 7.9 which I am not.

Cheers,
Lew


#5

Lew,

Most of the in house experiments that the Germans did where on “special” cases with no primer krimps and no
annulus colour. Personally I never saw experimental s on common sS cases.

But that will not mean that there are no exceptions.

451kr.


#6

Guy’s, first of all, many thanks for the responses.

John, I do not think it had something to do with the PZ Patrone as the way we know this round. The goal of this round was to make it a lead free.

The cartridge is not to long after my opinion.
In WW1 the Germans used 7,9 flair cartridges who were longer
But 451KR is right, it is unusual to take a green annulus case to play with for experiments.
But we must think it was done after 1936 and before…… that is the question.

The rounds from “edq”,”eej”, “dnf” “Polte/aux” were specially made for this purpose.
The Waffenfabrik Treuenbrizen was not of this size. They were a part of the Kopp concern and strongly involved with the development of the lacquered steel cases.
But developing bullets? There were other companies with more experience like Rheinmetall-Borsig.

It is also not possible to say that this round was loaded by P25.

Rgds
Dutch


#7

Dutch, I assume you don’t have an x-ray of this round, doesn’t you? It will surely help to learn more about its construction and internal shape.

By the way, how much does it weight?


#8

Dutch, I noted that the one in Bill’s collection has a neck that is not crimped.


#9

I understand that these cartridges were sold many years ago, but it would be interesting to know if they are coming from the same seller…
My main question is : why these bullets are loaded on fired cases?
The fact the primer are striked let me think that somebody put something (it could be everything else than a bullet) on fired cases he has…
Dutch, is the driving band is brass?


#10

[quote=“JohnMoss”]
Had it not been the same lot and date as the one in the Windisch book, I would have thought it might be a fake. I had another similar type, in fact more similar to the regular eej Panzerpatronen that this one is, headstamp only, as I recall, “P M.” I assumed that to be "Polte Magdeburg."quote]

Hello John,
Can you post pictures of your cartridges,please? It would be interesting to compare yours and Dutch’s one.
Regards
Laurent


#11

I am not sure, but I think Dutch’s cartridge was my cartridge. Mine had a lightly snapped primer, as does his, and it had the white out in the markings, which I hate, but nver got around to removing from many of my 7.9 x 57 cartridges that had it when I got them.

If Dutch did not get this one from me, regardless, there is no point to pictures of mine (which I dont have anyway) because it was identical to the one that Dutch pictures.


#12

[quote=“JohnMoss”]I am not sure, but I think Dutch’s cartridge was my cartridge. Mine had a lightly snapped primer, as does his, and it had the white out in the markings, which I hate, but nver got around to removing from many of my 7.9 x 57 cartridges that had it when I got them.

If Dutch did not get this one from me, regardless, there is no point to pictures of mine (which I dont have anyway) because it was identical to the one that Dutch pictures.[/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t understand that you haven’t got this cartridge anymore, what about the one with PM headstamp?
Is somebody know the headstamp of the one in the woodin’s collection?


#13

I don’t have the one with PM headstamp anymore, either. I never much cared for that round. The bullet appeared hand-painted. I only acquired it originally for the very scarce headstamp on it - just “P M” even though I paid more for it than one should just for a headstamp. I never was offered or saw another 7.9 with the PM headstamp even though I know they must exist.


#14

John, the round is from your collection.
The one in Bill’s has the same head stamp.

BTW, this the only 7,9 “PM” round I have in my collection.


#15

John,Dutch
Thank you for your replies, so it seems that 2 of these cartridges exist, both with the same headstamp, And both have a fired case without the ball crimped, which kind of test could they do with this kind of loading? It could be some experimentals bullets somebody put on fired case just to show them, what do you thing about that? It’s just hypothesis…


#16

Dutch - Fabulous Polte headstamp. Never heard of such a thing before. I’m glad I don’t collect 7.9 anymore, or I would have to visit your home sometime
(when you are not home) to “inspect” that cartridge. : - )