7,9 Polte question

I hope somebody can answer this question.

Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea what this coding means on a 7,9 Mauser Polte case.

Both cases were reloaded blanks.

What is the meaning from “EM”. I think “10” means lot 10 and “e” the rate as used on larger calibres. Because the marking “EM” is also used by Polte in 1936, I presume Polte also made the 1935 case.

The “3” could be the lot number. This case is also known with an “EM6” marking.

Any ideas?

P EN 10e 35
P EM3 36
P EM6 36

Thanks in advance.

Dutch,

I can’t answer your question, but I saw somewhere, maybe on this forum, a 7,9 headstamp with “EM 12 35”

Domi

1051624808_zpsq2memta8_result

Source:

Wow, I forgot all about that great thread!

hi

as we have Est, aka Erprobungsstelle xxx, this maybe is ErprobungsMuster, in contrary to the V stamped Versuch (spatrone)…means this where samples ready for troop trials, whereas V stamped ones where only factory internals…
pp

Peter, I don’t know how it is in other calibres but in 7,9 I know (Polte) head stamps with a P M marking until the change from code to “aux”
The marking with a name from a testing facility (Erprobungsstelle) I only know from beer bottles. :-)

134054

The testing from an sS cartridge with a brass or CWS case had only a P M head stamp.

P M sS

Testing with a new Mat code that was not made with this code in 1938 also the P M was used.

P M

The test cases with the “aux” code are known with a Probe (number) and with or without “aux” pressed in the base.
About the troop trials, as far I know only normal head stamps were used.
Perhaps you can show an example.

Rgds

Probe 3 (2)

Wim ,
I have also the 7x45 with the Hs P M in my collection.Also I send pictures from the 8x30 and the 8x45 with P M .
Also PB(qrb) used the M in the HS.

8x30 P M Hülse

P.B.  M - 1  44


Norbert Berg

Norbert, the “PB” is a 8x45 ?

No a 8x33 gas pressure test with a 2 mm gas port.
Look also the 8x45 Polte in the littel picture under the qrb.(Page 12 from my book " 7.9 mm Kurzpatrone 43 ")

Norbert

I forgot the Polte .



Norbert

1 Like

Beautiful specimens. Congrats gentlemen on them. -Ger

I had always assumed that “P M” stand for “Polte Magdeburg” Whereas the “M” is also found with “P.B” and “qrb”, so what does the “M” stand for and also"P.B"?

By the Italian case showed by Norbert the “M” could mean Messing. (Brass)

Normally the 7,9 x 33 have all steel cases.

I am sure that P.B. is the factory name. “Pirotecniko di Bologna. Later they used the German code “qrb”.
But I dont think they were starting a significant production of 7,9 x 33 during these days.

I think we must make a cut somewhere 1940/41. Before this date PM was used by Polte.

After this time they use other systems for identification.

Rgds

I have a few empty Polte boxes in the collection printed with the words “Versuch”. (test)
Unfortunately I don’t know what is been tested here.

There is also printed “Sorte 1” on the label, meaning reloaded cases, and the cases came from two different factories.

Any ideas

Rgds


Thank you for these explanations. I still wonder why, they used “P.B” instead of the usual “B” and why as late as 1944, for the same lot “1”, they used both “P.B” and “qrb”…

remember…it was under german occupation rule…and they stamped whatever the germans told them…
The M for Messing (brass) was used in my opinion, as a star is much more complicatd to make in a headstamp bunter, as a normal letter…
The PM from Magdeburg has nothing to do with that M used in Italy…
As far i could find out, PM by Polte was used on all developments, which where produced on their own…as proposals maybe for government use…for the 7x45, 8x45 and 8x30 where no official orders, as on the 8x33 specially AH has even stopped the development…
If there was an order, they started with official nomenclature stamps…i.e.delivery to Rechlin for Luftwaffe, or Kummersdorf for Army…
That explains headstamps like Pf, PM a.s.o. for inhouse tests, or in more or less inofficially tests by Kummersdorf…

AS dutch shows the probe hs (there where several numbers), from most of them have shown up later loaded as Blanks (50 years ago we found a lot of them in austrian lakes) which also shows they used up for non important things the still stored production overhang from no longer needed cases with not related headstamps…
Maybe the boxes with the print Versuch, are tests for the overgoing time from PP27 to PP33…without a unharmed box, we will not knew, what the Experiments (Versuch) really was about…cases or bullets?
The Primer years where still be coded by G (1935) or K…see explanation of this code elsewhere here on the forum.

Nice boxes by the way…
pp

I know that in 1917, Polte produced some 8x50R Lebel cases loaded with sS’s ball for indirect’s fire with machine guns, the cases in question were headstamped “P M 2 17”. Whereas 7,9x57 productions bear only the P in the headstamp. Basing on your post that means that the 8x50R polte’s case were not issued on the fronf for combat use?

we where speaking about ww2 time frame, not the first ww…
PM use during that time was different from use in ww2, where the military stamps P (alone) where used in original loadings in both periods.
This has nothing to do with PM on Lebel, Gras, or russian caliber ammo, which where auxilarry ammo for second line or auxillary troops…
p

Laurent,
do you have a specimen of the Lebel cartridge loaded with an sS bullet? Is it possibe to measure the bullet diameter directly in front of the case mouth? An ordinary sS bullet has only 8.2 mm diameter compared to 8.3 mm of a balle D (outside the case), which is a lot of difference for small arms.

Jochem, I think I can help you.
A French collector gave me this round long time ago.
He told me it was from the first German trials made with French cases.
The bullet diameter is 8.2 mm.

Rgds