7.9 x 57mm sS Beschuss patrone


#1

I found this rather nice 7.9mm proof round at our recent Bisley meeting and thought I’d share the picture with the 7.9mm collectors out there. The headstamp indicates Polte manufacture for the Spanish Civil War but I’m wondering whether it was specifically manufactured as a proof round to be sent to Spain - or whether it was manufactured after the Spanish Civil War using a leftover case.
Why would Germany have sent proof rounds to a war zone?

[url=http://s66.photobucket.com/user/jimiles/media/003_zps053b26c8.jpg.html][img]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/jimiles/003_zps053b26c8.jpg[/img][/url]

#2

Here are a few examples from German proof „Beschuß“ rounds. Fists four are Polte.
The colour is different and is seems to me that it is done manually on your round.

To be sure the only possibility is looking what kind of powder is inside the cartridge.

Rgds
Dutch


#3

Thanks Dutch…how distinctive would the powder be if I was to pull the bullet? The round is quite nicely crimped and I’m reluctant to pull it unless its really likely to be conclusive - in which case I will.
Is it feasible that Germany would have sent proof rounds to Spain in the late 1930’s? I know nothing about weapon manufacture but presumably Spain would have been manufacturing weapons during this period and so would have required proof rounds.


#4

Jim, I could not resist, so I unloaded a Beschuß round.
The powder is dark black and not so shiny as the normal powder.

Rgds
Dutch


#5

Thanks for doing that on my behalf Dutch - I guess I’ll have to do the same now to compare mine! Do both charges weigh the same or is the proof charge heavier?


#6

Many thanks Dutch, for doing that. I never saw it before.


#7

Dutch

What is the difference in the powder weight?

joe


#8

According to data Pawlas published, Beschusspatrone charge weights depended on case type:
brass 2.45 g (2.38 g)
copper-plated steel; laquered steel: 2.30 g (2.23 g)
laquered steel St+: 2.36 g (n/a)
The weights are for a nominal pressure of 4500 (4000) atmospheres.

I am always sceptical about Pawlas but I know of no other data for Beschusspatrone.


#9

Curiosity has finally got the better of me and I have pulled apart this cartridge. Neither the bullet nor the propellant charge are as I would have expected to find. The bullet weighs 198gns but has a milled cannelure that I certainly haven’t seen before on a German military sS bullet. The propellant is nothing like that pictured by Dutch and the charge weighs 46gns.


#10

According to documentation, an sS Beschuss bullet should have no crimp groove at all, neither the German nor the U.S. type your photo shows.


#11

The bullet weight of that cannelured BT bullet is only half the store. What is the bullet diameter?


#12

The projectile looks like a UK manufactured BESA 7,9 (ball, 198 grain). The long boat tail on these are quite distinctive, as is the knurled crimping groove. JH


#13

The bullet diameter 2mm above the cannelure is 7.84mm. 2mm below the cannelure it measures 7.92mm. The bullet length is 35.06mm.
Would 46gns of this propellant make this a proof round?


#14

7,84 mm sounds like a .30 projectile.

Hans


#15

The 7.92 m/m figure suggests even more the 7.65 m/m Mauser, or maybe a slightly “big” .303. Jack


#16

Agree, I did not read the entry to the end … :-(

Hans


#17

[quote=“JPeelen”]According to data Pawlas published, Beschusspatrone charge weights depended on case type:
brass 2.45 g (2.38 g)
copper-plated steel; laquered steel: 2.30 g (2.23 g)
laquered steel St+: 2.36 g (n/a)
The weights are for a nominal pressure of 4500 (4000) atmospheres.

I am always sceptical about Pawlas but I know of no other data for Beschusspatrone.[/quote]

JP,

Just found this table about the loadings of the beschusspatrone (i believe they were published in “waffen-revue 91”)
Point f of that reference mentions the same data of your reference…


#18

Here is a Label,

If there is interest, I can show some with different cases.


#19

Orpheus72,
Karl R. Pawlas was the publisher, editor, and -more or less- sole author of Waffen-Revue. I should have considered that this might not be as obvious to others as to me. By “Pawlas wrote” I referred to this very page of Waffen Revue.