7.9 x 58 1937 p 207 found in israel desert- what gun is it?

i found it in hill 69 next to the city of ashdod
’ during 1947 havey battel betwin egypt and israeli trups took place at that hill’ ended by israeli witdrwo

what konde of gun was thet emunition in use?
i know that p207 is german

Both Israel and Egypt used 7.92x57 weapons, but there’s a better chance it came from an Israeli weapon. If so, it could have been fired by a Mauser rifle, an MG34, MG42, or one of various models of ZB/Besa MGs. There is also the possibility that the case got there after the War of Independence.

thank you

Please explain your use of the term “7.9 x 58 mm”. Also, tell us the complete headstamp. Further, a picture of both the cartridge (or fired case) and the headstamp, plus a better description of features (case material, presence of any colored seals, primer cup material and, if any, primer crimping).

Jon probably answered you question the best it can be answered. With so many WWII weapons on the battlefield during the early wars between Israel and her Arab neighbors, it would be almost impossible with a forensic examination of the case, firing pin impression, extractor markings and their location on the case, and ejector markings on the head of the case, to identify a specific model and type of gun, if a fired case. If a live round, it would not be possible. Israel would be the primary user of a hodgepodge of 7.9 x 57 mm (note: 57 mm) weapons, but Egypt used the Hakim 7.9 x 57 mm rifle, a copy of the Swedish Ljungman rifle. However, they were manufacturing that caliber of ammunition at their Shoubra factory and would not likely have had a need to be using surplus German ammunition.

It may be that your question was already answered by Jonny as best as anyone could with the information provided, and perhaps even with more information.

Regarding your use of 58 mm as the case length, if a fired case, it could very well be stretched to where the case length is closer to 58 mm than to 57 mm.

thank you john
it is my forst tome on this forum
I will tray to uploud pic
joel

Joel,

That would be great. It would help us to help you. It is always best to give all information available when you ask a question, but when it is the first time, it is hard to know what to do. As I recall, my very first questions on the the Forum when it started were not well asked at all.

Thank you for contributing. We hope to hear often from you. New at it, or an old-timer, everyone has information to contribute to the story!

how do I attach pic to the forum?
It look like I canot find the right botton

I will send you a PM with my email. I can post it for you.

Pictures sent by Joel:

Kind of tough to tell from the pictures, but primer strike looks like a ZB26 or ZB30. Case mouth damage is also consistent with those two weapons. JH

I agree with Haak. The chisel nose (oval shaped) firing pin on the Czech 26 and 30 Machineguns, as far as 7.9 x 57 mm ammunition goies, is matched only by that of the Canadia John Inglis version of the Bren Gun (Bren = BRno ENfield)
in 7.9 x 57 mm, made primarily, I believe, for China. The Bren, as the name implies, was based on the Czech design.

Considering where it was found, and the fact that the Czech LMGs have been found all over the world, it is most likely from one of them rather than from a Canadian Bren Gun.

The cartridge case is, by the way, that of a standard German round of pre-WWII manufacture, properly designated 7.9 x 57 mm, and not 7.9 x 58 mm. The case has been elongated slightly by the damage to the case mouth, I am sure, so may measure 58 mm in length in its present form, but that does not change its proper designation.

The Other Czech gun which used a flat, oval Firing Pin, was the Vz37 (Export ZB53) a belt-fed MG copied by the British as the BESA, for Armoured Vehicles ( Light Recce Vehicles, Tanks).
The Haganah and IDF had acquired MGs from Czechoslovakia of all types, including the Vz26, the ZB30 and the ZB53 (Vz37) ( Vz denotes actual Czech Army Issue, “ZB” is the Brno Trade name (For export).
German ammunition from all over Europe was also acquired (Italy, France, Czechoslovakia etc. North Africa, and so on.)

Seeing this is ex-German ammo, more than likely fired from an Israeli MG, rather than a BESA ( the British made their own 7,9mm ammo); of course, a BESA in Israeli hands could have fired it.

Doc AV

thank’s for helping me get more clear about the case.
hope to find another intersting thing’s.
It was plesure to learn from you guy’s